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Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
http://www.runestorm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40041		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Thalen [ Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
To Whom It May Concern:

I am an avid player of Ballistic weapons. Never before have I played such a captivating mod so well balanced. The blend of realistic weapons in a strange fiction plane is staggering. I am a member of Hedsteem, the online server on Unreal tournament, that just upgraded to a third dedicated server, to host another server for ONS. Both the ONS and the VCTF servers are almost packed everyday, with new people joining and experience the powerful mod your team has created.

However, in the new release of 2.0 come many more problems. Aside from several glitches and bug reports, the list is clearly to high for me to put into this letter. But I will be brining up some issues that plague this mod.

For one thing, the Battle rifle is a terrible sniper rifle, and its low ammo count makes it a terrible assault rifle. There is nowhere near enough zoom, and damage can be a problem.

The M50 is terrible now. Before the release of 2.0 its accuracy was amazing. As it should be, but now it’s slapstick plastic version of what it was before. Sure, now I can tell when I get a headshot, but now it’s a matter of if, it’s almost impossible to keep a good fire stream down. And the grenades have almost no range, no matter what the circumstances.

Except more:

Sincerely,
Thalen
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
I think it would good if you can post all that you find problematic with the mod, so as the RS devs can possible either explain why its done like that or if they might intend to fix it.

Also, this has to be the nicest complaint post I have ever read... ever, in any forum. Nice job T, if i could post a thumbs up i'd post it.
Author:  Thalen [ Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Thank you very much. I plan on posting much more then these two problems. Hedsteem has made me incharge of investiaging problems in multiplayer BW, which I find much more importent then Instant Action.
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Good to know. Though i find Instant Action more pressing, but to each his own.

Can't wait to hear what you have to say Thalen
Author:  Bjossi [ Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Thalen wrote:
Hedsteem has made me incharge of investiaging problems in multiplayer BW, which I find much more importent then Instant Action.


The vast majority of players have never played UT2004 in multiplayer, how exactly is IA less important?
Author:  Thalen [ Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Well, what affects one person in Multiplayer,. effects many. But to be fair, you do bring up a good point Bjossi.

Countering that, I'd like to point out that fighting agaist players who think react and play diffrent then you, is very exciting, much more so then IA, where one can be fustrated by the cheapness of bots(Or stupidity) or something along the lines like that.

Bots dont try disabling mines ,or picking up Planted explosives. They fall for simple flanking tricks unless they have a radar built in. THey dont try flanking but pure brute force every single time. You cant command them as fully possible like I do over Ventrilo. Caculated strikes in ONS are all but impossible with them.
Author:  Bjossi [ Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Heh, you write down exactly what I hate about the bots. It's anything but easy to make a smart AI. What I hope is that Epic make the base AI smarter in UT3 and allow more flexible modifications to improve/alter it.

The only reason I never play multiplayer is that I'm no good against humans. When you have eyesight-related disabilities it can take it's toll on the playstyle. I have troubles fighting bots on Adept. . .

Anyways, you bring up good points in the first post. The developers were working on a patch to fix countless bugs and balance issues but that progress went with their hard drive.
Author:  Wup [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
From an Admin standpoint Id like to have a better documented BW2.ini file, I realize most people use the interface for instant action but the servers do not. never will thats it. I have alot of features that are in there that are only used in an instant action type game therefore useless in the server envronment, therefore just making things more confusing, For instance the No-Reload feature works fine in Instant action but will not work If set to true on the servers. Anyway, I have figured out most of the stuff myself but would still like to see a Web-Based Version of the features for the servers.
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
welcome, and thanks for the post..

i see HedSteem guys do support our mod ALOT! so thanks.. as mentioned, the SRS900 has been tweaked for the patch, that'll be around soon actually..

M50.. mmm.. don't think we changed it since v1.7 actually.. The grenade launcher has been debated about a number of times as well..

@ Wup.. as devs, we really do understand the need for decent server option,s and accesablility.. which is why we really need to do our TC.. that way we can get so much more stuff like that done, and even make a decent console, similar to id and Valve games have :) along with documentation.. expect our next project to excell at many things..
Author:  Thalen [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Moving on, I would like to address something that in one point of my life, was my single love.
But now, like a jealos lover, I had to move onto the railgun.

The sniperrifle, one of the most depressing weapons in BW to me.
Its weak firepower makes me just want to walk up to someone with a sword then trying to lay down 3 headshots.
I havent been able to get a headshot on the first try ever since 2.0 which to one who loves sniping so much, is equally depressing.

I belive in the next patch, the new sniperrifle should be able to hold its own agaist a railgun, (for infantry not vehicals) but have the advantage of being steathy.
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
I always kinda preferred the sniper rifle to the railgun. Even if you don't get head shots, two body shots will kill them, rail gun on the other hand, you need to wait for it to be fairly well charged to kill the enemies that easily.

It always seemed to me that the sniper rifle was much better at anti-infantry, but then again I don't care much for sniping, so I probably couldn't give a fair evaluation.
Author:  Kaboodles [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
I really don't understand everyone thinking the Battle Rifle is too weak. It's got high damage and very low effective recoil. I do agree about the undersized weapon clip, but it is not useless in either a sniping or assault position as you seem to imply. It's less effective than the M50 or bigger snipers, as a jack-of-all-trades weapon should be.

As for the Rail Gun, it is just as effective against infantry as the R78, if not more. It only needs to be charged up to around 1/3 power to deal the same torso and limb damage as the R78, which it will probably reach while cocking the gun. The disadvantages (Easier to trace, greater movement penalty, lack of significant Headshot bonus, and that weird twitching thing it does) really don't show up in most situations.

As part of my own mini-weapon balance project, (to see if my theories hold water) I've modified the Rail gun so that it only charges to 30% power. You have to hold down the fire button for a more powerful shot, and you only have a few seconds to line up a shot before it discharges so people can't run around charging it the whole time. I think it makes it a little more balanced and more difficult to use, but that's a good thing with a gun as powerful as the rail gun.

EDIT: I actually haven't noticed any difference with the M50 since 1.72. I might have to look at some of the old BW files now.
Author:  Thalen [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
I meant that the Sniper rifle is weaker then the railgun. Its a one hit kill almost anywhere I hit with a railgun )unless with full health with sheilds)
Author:  Bjossi [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Thalen wrote:
The sniperrifle, one of the most depressing weapons in BW to me.
Its weak firepower makes me just want to walk up to someone with a sword then trying to lay down 3 headshots.
I havent been able to get a headshot on the first try ever since 2.0 which to one who loves sniping so much, is equally depressing.


Before 2.0 you could run around with that thing like Rambo, shooting players in the head again and again without even needing a scope. That was unacceptable. I agree that the changes here are not perfect, but I like this better than the old way.
Author:  Wup [ Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
ShadowBlade wrote:
welcome, and thanks for the post..

i see HedSteem guys do support our mod ALOT! so thanks.. as mentioned, the SRS900 has been tweaked for the patch, that'll be around soon actually..

M50.. mmm.. don't think we changed it since v1.7 actually.. The grenade launcher has been debated about a number of times as well..

@ Wup.. as devs, we really do understand the need for decent server option,s and accesablility.. which is why we really need to do our TC.. that way we can get so much more stuff like that done, and even make a decent console, similar to id and Valve games have :) along with documentation.. expect our next project to excell at many things..


Tell ya what Shadow, Ill send a Small list of the INI I would like documented and You can send me some Info on it. That will make me happy. !amazed
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
good idea Wup ;)

go ahead, i'm certain DC will oblige..
Author:  Thalen [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Bjossi wrote:
Thalen wrote:
The sniperrifle, one of the most depressing weapons in BW to me.
Its weak firepower makes me just want to walk up to someone with a sword then trying to lay down 3 headshots.
I havent been able to get a headshot on the first try ever since 2.0 which to one who loves sniping so much, is equally depressing.


Before 2.0 you could run around with that thing like Rambo, shooting players in the head again and again without even needing a scope. That was unacceptable. I agree that the changes here are not perfect, but I like this better than the old way.


If your playing BOTS who for the most of the time don't really move.

On internet play, try and do that. Its impossible, chaos add in greater. Zooming is almost always nessisary. THe only time when you don't is when you crouch and hold still.
Author:  Daniel [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Hi.. im Daniel im also from Hedsteem >_> I am just going to throw some ideas and fixes out there...
The SRS should have more than 20 ammo...
The Railgun have 5 ammo because it can prretty much blow through a tank with each shot
More damage for the Skrith Blades
Skirth Pistol less useless >_>
Katana charged shot more powerful.. I have to charge shot slash slash to kill most people
Knives start out at 12 but if you pick some up you can go above 12..
Revolver laser a little bit more useful
Assault rifle more accurate
Camera less buggy..
Black pistol burst more like the R10
G5 Camera fix
Lightning gun alot fire more useful.. because the main fire is too useful
Toxic grenades cause less lag...

~Daniel
Author:  cyberax [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
ShadowBlade wrote:
good idea Wup ;)

go ahead, i'm certain DC will oblige..


And I'm going to bother you for a whole doucmented one....
I have a place that kind of thing that needs to get going!!!

Thanks for the compliments and complaints.
Without the feedback the devs don't know whats good and whats bad...

I would like to see a lot more things being done with BW for the multiplayer guys....
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Kaboodles wrote:
I really don't understand everyone thinking the Battle Rifle is too weak. It's got high damage and very low effective recoil. I do agree about the undersized weapon clip, but it is not useless in either a sniping or assault position as you seem to imply. It's less effective than the M50 or bigger snipers, as a jack-of-all-trades weapon should be.


Yeah, i've played quite a few matches using it and its fun as heck, though i still hate having to pretty much stop and crouch to fire the damn thing accurately. But oh well.
Author:  Kaboodles [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Daniel wrote:
Katana charged shot more powerful.. I have to charge shot slash slash to kill most people


The secondary fire does an average of 80 damage for torso shots, 115 for headshots, and 35 for limbs.

Daniel wrote:
Knives start out at 12 but if you pick some up you can go above 12..


12 knives is too much as it is. Throwing knives are incredibly spammy, especially when they ignore shields. And who carries around 12 combat knives anyway?

Daniel wrote:
Assault rifle more accurate


I think its accuracy is just fine. Recoil is its biggest problem.

Daniel wrote:
Lightning gun alot fire more useful.. because the main fire is too useful


And while you're at it, make the main fire less useful. Or else have it spawn at a superweapon spawn by default, and not the Link gun.
Author:  Thalen [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Ignore Daniel. He's a moron. None of his problems are listed by me.
Author:  Wup [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Thalen wrote:
Ignore Daniel. He's a moron. None of his problems are listed by me.



LOL Just give Daniel 3000+ Ammo on all guns.....

(with his aim he needs it)
Author:  Kaboodles [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Wow. Harsh.

I do agree with the problems he listed that I didn't address specifically. Like the Rail Gun clip reduction, revolver sight, and the tox grenade. It's not like the problems you listed are the only ones that exist in the mod.
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
most of BW's horrible bugs (dual weapons, flamer crash), could so easily be avoided if it wasnt a mutator.. !mistrust

at any rate Wup.. that patch is making progress..
Author:  Wup [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
ShadowBlade wrote:
most of BW's horrible bugs (dual weapons, flamer crash), could so easily be avoided if it wasnt a mutator.. !mistrust

at any rate Wup.. that patch is making progress..



Ok then make a full conversion.
8)
Author:  Kaboodles [ Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Thalen wrote:
I am an avid player of Ballistic weapons. Never before have I played such a captivating mod so well balanced.


I can't believe I haven't caught this until now, but I think we must have been playing two completely different mods here. I've found there's a very real and quite severe lack of balance in the weapons. So many are incredibly overpowered, especially the ones that can:

- blind your eyes and easily take you out in one or two shots
- lurk quietly in dark corners and blow up when you run within two feet of it (though strangely are less sensitive to bullets)
- can be dropped on enemies almost instantly (basically an instant explosion; a Pineapple grenade that doesn't require any timing). Alternatively, can be used as a landmine
- spit out lead at 3600 rounds per minute
- can see and shoot through walls
- spew fire
- shoot lightning
- shoot blue-tracer bullets and sport wicked blades and paint jobs (especially when dual wielded)
- or can be guided to their targets with remarkable ease an accuracy and can do a complete 180 even in 10ft wide corridors (and also can never be dodged when locked on)
- have two barrels (except the one that shoots bullets, that one's just a weird gun)
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Kaboodles wrote:

- lurk quietly in dark corners and blow up when you run within two feet of it (though strangely are less sensitive




Isn't that the whole point of a mine?
Author:  reaper900 [ Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
I agree, what else would a mine do, let off a loud siren when you get to close?
The mine along with the Trip Mine also add a lot of strategy to CTF.You can't just run into the enemy base like Rambo anymore.Ok you can ,but you still have to pay attention to your surroundings.
Author:  Thalen [ Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Complaints and issues: A formal letter.
Kaboodles wrote:
Thalen wrote:
I am an avid player of Ballistic weapons. Never before have I played such a captivating mod so well balanced.


I can't believe I haven't caught this until now, but I think we must have been playing two completely different mods here.



All right, I see someone doesn’t understand “balanceâ€Â
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