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BW weapons play/Effects Bugs
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Author:  Wangtang [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

I have a server which uses the BW weapons.
I have had these weapons on for quite some time, and over this time have discovered many issues with the way guns operate, effects and lag.
First, Theres an issue I have with the Hammer weapon. I find this weapon to be slightly underpowered in the fact it has almost Zero blast radius, so that you have to get within at least 5 ft of anything to damage it. For soemthing like a portable artillery cannon, I would expect this to be more deadly in that sense. I also have a huge problem with people who run around with the hammers and blast everyone with them. Not only is it an almost always instant kill, but the fact that the operator can fire it at near point blank and survive also annoys me. The same goes for the M203 on the M50 and the G5. There should be some sort of function with these explosive rounds that causes them to only become active after flying a certain amount of distance (this would also help with accidental deaths) And possibly have it so if one does fire the weapons close enought to something (say less than 10 ft) that the projectile would simply peg the target, but not explode. This would bring added tactics to the mod and make it more fun to play, rather than getting noobs who run around and shoot you point blank with bombs.

The second problem i have found with BW is its destruction of Effect emitters. Many times I find empty mine holders that have been in a map for over 10 mins, or fire effects that dont go away. Some of the effects from staff weapons also have this issue, such as the special function with the Dark Star, where the fire emitters will stay around forever. This reduces performance and lags people up.

third problem has to do with the Skirth Pistol.
The skirth pistol is sort of an unfair weapon, because of its practically enless suply of ammo, and high damage (compaired to other pistols such as the RS8) and its been so bad on my server that I ended up taking it off of BWC, because an RS8 vs a Skirth never seems to work out for the RS8 person, and the fact the skirth has a sniper ability with its secondary. My idea for fixing that would be to simply lower its ammo amount to something like 150 or 200, or increase its ammo consumption. Its inf ammo is unfair to those who use the other weapons which require reloading, this would at least make it so that they can not go on forever shooting wildly.

Last problem is with the Staffs.
I have found these weapons incredibly annoying, especially when you are playing a DM game and someone gets the Nova staff and goins around zapping all the players, many of which have jsut spawned and are left with nothing but a pistol. The lightning makes it nearly impossible to fight, and bring an unfair advatage to lightning users. Aside from that, the Nova has 3 fire functions, yet most people always use the lightning. The lightning wouldnt be so bad if at least it ate ammo more quickly, to at least give the one being attacked some chance to survive. There's also the matter with the explosion radius of the Nova's and Dark star's primary fire. It becomes more of an idirect fire weapon, and I think it would be better to have the explosion radius much smaller, and have direct hits be more powerful. Most of the palyers on my server dislike the power of the staffs, and get extreemly irritated at the palyers who use them. Its goten to the point where I have removed the Nova from game play, and am close to removing the Dark star as well.

One note to this and my server: On my server I have set the recoil effect to about 1.5, and inaccuracy scale to 0.5 (because when holding a real rifle, my hands dont shake violently while running or jumping) and have increased the damage count to 3x normal (for a more realistic play). i realize this may contricute to some of these problems, but I've had them before changing the damage rate.

One last thing on vehicles:
The Thor Tank, while incredibly awesome, does suck somewhat. For such long barrels, the projectiles dont go anywhere, in my opinion, if it is to shoot only that far, it should hav ea shorter barrel.
Theres also the issue of the sounds working on it. When in a multiplayer game, the engine sounds cut out, so you are left with a silent runing tank (not cool) Adn the MG mounted on top of it doesnt funtion properly online. It shoots, but no where near the direction you want it to (sometimes it shoots behind it, if that makes sense) And often times players report that the turret become detached from the tank in their view but not he driver's. One other thing with it, the right track has a slight problem, where its rear wheel is higher than the left wheel so that it floats a bit, and when going over a bump, will show through the track gaurd on the tank.

Author:  Kaboodles [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

I agree with you on the grenades. I've been experimenting with fuses for the M50 grenade, FP9, and G5 with my weapon tweaks (haven't touched the HAMR yet). The M900 grenade was simple enough and pretty much behaves as you describe. The FP9s cannot be not detonated for 2.5 seconds after deployment, to eliminate "bitch bombing". The G5 is a little trickier, though. I'm having trouble getting the rockets to bounce off surfaces and fly off erratically.

As for the Skrith sidearm, it's actually considered one of the weaker weapons in the game, as it can't dish out the damage quite as quickly as the others on default damage settings. Its only advantage is that you can basically fire it forever. Your 3x damage pretty much eliminates the A42's real weakness, and does other interesting things to weapon balance. I think I do have a solution to your A42 woes in my weapon tweaks, but the tweaks are not ready for public distribution quite yet.

As for the staves, you can always just remove them.

I also agree on the Thor's projectiles. SOOO SLOOOWWW.

Author:  SHAD0Wdump [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

Wait,so your asking to make the Hamr more powerful when your complaining about its inst-gib abilities?

Author:  Wangtang [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

Well not MORE powerful, but it needs blast radius, because when a person shoots you at point blank with the hammer, they should also die, but they dont, they dont even take damage. And to actually kill someone, you need to shoot it like 5 ft next to teh person, and for such a nice explosion, the damage radius on it sucks!
And if Kaboodles can get the fuse thing to work as he says, it will help balance the weapon even more.

Author:  Kaboodles [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

Wangtang wrote:
Well not MORE powerful, but it needs blast radius, because when a person shoots you at point blank with the hammer, they should also die, but they dont, they dont even take damage. And to actually kill someone, you need to shoot it like 5 ft next to teh person, and for such a nice explosion, the damage radius on it sucks!
And if Kaboodles can get the fuse thing to work as he says, it will help balance the weapon even more.


The HAMR's damage radius isn't that bad. Its maximum damage is 350, with a blast radius of 192 UU. Damage scales linearly, with max damage at the center and 0 at 192. So dish out 100 damage, you need to land the shell within 137 UU of the target, which is about 2.6 meters or 8 and a half feet. With triple damage, that number grows to 173 UU / 3.3 m / 10.8 feet.

Furthermore, it really isn't supposed to have a large blast radius. It was designed to destroy vehicles and oversized alien cyborgs, so most of its force would be concentrated on whatever it hits.


As far as balancing the HAMR's close quarters capabiltiy goes, I don't think a fuse would be the solution here. It would probably be best to prevent the user from firing it while running, like I did with the G5 and Minigun.

Author:  Wangtang [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

I also noticed the Hammers explosion seems to do damage over time, or its a glitch, because often, the shell will explode and end up killing somebody a few secs after, which can make shooting moving targets damn hard.
Another thing with the G5: The mortar system on it can become extreemly cheap, especially when everyone is always using it. I know you can shoot down the rocket, but when you get people who shoot at you, or launch multiple rockets, it gets quite annoying. In my opinion, the G5 is an RPG, not a Jevelin RL. I think it should just have its laser guided part and not the mortar thing. And it would be nice to have the rocket go alot faster as well, making it more useful at long ranges and at moving objects. Then maybe have a separate weapon with the mortar type function, sililar to the Javelin that the army uses, and have it only be able to lock onto vehicles, and make it so you can specificly target certain things (you could have a targeting box for the crossair, and when you press a button it would start the targetting sequence, which would require you to keep the target in the reticle for a set amount of time, say 3-5 secs before it locks) and i have found that when you have multiple targets (such as some players and a vehicle close together) that its extreemly hard to pick out a specific target (such as the vehicle). Also, if you did do ythe Javelin idea, you could add the option to choose whether the missile flies up and over, or straight and direct.

I also have issues with recoil/accuracy on certain weapons, such as the XK2, and machine guns. Technically, since the XK2 is supposed to have smaller rounds, and resembles an MP5, it should more behave like one in that its recoil right now is too much. This makes it a very undesirable weapon of choice, especially when you can have something liek the 50's which you can dual weild and deal out the same, or even more damage at a much lower recoil rate. Also, smaler weapons should become less accurate at long ranges. Pistols are ment for close ranges, however you can use most of them in the mod at sniper ranges, which also is uncool.
Machine guns are another issue with BW. I find that the MG's are MUCH more accurate when unmounted, which makes no sense at all. This makes mounting it useless. This is something that should be fixed, because the weapon should be most accurate when mounted. Also, the way the hands hold the mounted MG's is unrealistic. The idea of having the bipod is to have the frint end of the weapon rest on something, and the hand that holds the handle there is unnessesary. The handles on the top of those weapons are their so people can carry the weapons when not in use.
Here's an example of how the weapon should be fired when mounted: Link.

One more thing on teh Minigun, this can become an annoyance, when players start running around with these things and just spraying anything they see. You should have it where if its undeployed, that the operator can only shoot it at a lower setting (such as 1200rpm) and when mounted they can totally let it loose at 3600.

I also have noticed that the R78 has a short range. I play on many larger scale maps, and Ive found that the rifle often doesnt reach the range of my target. I think this has to do with trace range, and I ould appreciate it if its overall range was increased.

Author:  Kaboodles [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:03 am ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

Wangtang wrote:
I also noticed the Hammers explosion seems to do damage over time, or its a glitch, because often, the shell will explode and end up killing somebody a few secs after, which can make shooting moving targets damn hard.

I'd chalk that up to lag.


Wangtang wrote:
Another thing with the G5: The mortar system on it can become extreemly cheap, especially when everyone is always using it. I know you can shoot down the rocket, but when you get people who shoot at you, or launch multiple rockets, it gets quite annoying. In my opinion, the G5 is an RPG, not a Jevelin RL. I think it should just have its laser guided part and not the mortar thing. And it would be nice to have the rocket go alot faster as well, making it more useful at long ranges and at moving objects. Then maybe have a separate weapon with the mortar type function, sililar to the Javelin that the army uses, and have it only be able to lock onto vehicles, and make it so you can specificly target certain things (you could have a targeting box for the crossair, and when you press a button it would start the targetting sequence, which would require you to keep the target in the reticle for a set amount of time, say 3-5 secs before it locks) and i have found that when you have multiple targets (such as some players and a vehicle close together) that its extreemly hard to pick out a specific target (such as the vehicle). Also, if you did do ythe Javelin idea, you could add the option to choose whether the missile flies up and over, or straight and direct.

I agree with the speed of the rocket. It's way too slow. On the other hand, it's also extremely maneuverable, and with its wide blast radius, easy to guide into infantry. Its damage is also another issue, as a direct hit is perfectly survivable with sufficient health and armor, but will definitely kill you if you happen to be sitting in a vehicle. Especially in mortar mode.

I do love the Javelin, and have already implemented the direct and indirect firemodes for my G5, as well as increasing speed and damage, while decreasing blast radius and turn rate. I am having some trouble getting the laser guidance to work properly with the indirect mode, and haven't figured out how the controls should work for it. The push-button targeting is a good idea though. I might have to try that.


Wangtang wrote:
I also have issues with recoil/accuracy on certain weapons, such as the XK2, and machine guns. Technically, since the XK2 is supposed to have smaller rounds, and resembles an MP5, it should more behave like one in that its recoil right now is too much. This makes it a very undesirable weapon of choice, especially when you can have something liek the 50's which you can dual weild and deal out the same, or even more damage at a much lower recoil rate. Also, smaler weapons should become less accurate at long ranges. Pistols are ment for close ranges, however you can use most of them in the mod at sniper ranges, which also is uncool.

Agreed on the XK2. I've never fired an MP5, but if a 14-year old boy can control one, anyone can.


Wangtang wrote:
Machine guns are another issue with BW. I find that the MG's are MUCH more accurate when unmounted, which makes no sense at all. This makes mounting it useless. This is something that should be fixed, because the weapon should be most accurate when mounted.

Done this as well. I've also increased the damage to more consistent numbers, so the M353 does the same damage as the M50, and the M925 is a goddamn monster.

Wangtang wrote:
Also, the way the hands hold the mounted MG's is unrealistic. The idea of having the bipod is to have the frint end of the weapon rest on something, and the hand that holds the handle there is unnessesary. The handles on the top of those weapons are their so people can carry the weapons when not in use.
Here's an example of how the weapon should be fired when mounted: Fixed Link

That would require new animations, which I can't do. And SB doesn't work for free. :P


Wangtang wrote:
One more thing on teh Minigun, this can become an annoyance, when players start running around with these things and just spraying anything they see. You should have it where if its undeployed, that the operator can only shoot it at a lower setting (such as 1200rpm) and when mounted they can totally let it loose at 3600.

It's like you're reading my mind or something. I have disabled the Minigun's 3600 RPM mode when unmounted, although you can still use 2400. I also have users of the Minigun unable to fire it while running, so only walking and crouch-walking is permitted for firing on the move.


Wangtang wrote:
I also have noticed that the R78 has a short range. I play on many larger scale maps, and Ive found that the rifle often doesnt reach the range of my target. I think this has to do with trace range, and I ould appreciate it if its overall range was increased.

The R78's range is exactly 15000 UUs, or about 285 meters. Pretty short for a sniper rifle

Author:  Wangtang [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

Animations are easy and I could help out with that.

Another slight problem i have is with the AM6's Pistols. Again, this is probably due to the 3x damage, however I find these weapons to be a bit overpowered and too accurate. I have had a few players who will dual weild these things and blast you with full auto on. In my opinion, the combo of dual weilding and full auto should cause large amounts of recoil/inaccuracy issues, especially since the design of the weapon looks off balance with weight (placement of the magazine being forward of the hand grip would really put a small weapon like this off balance). The recoil/inaccuracy levels of the AM6 should be raised to better balance the weapon in game play, because when you have an assault rifle, and a person can own you with 2 am6's withing a few seconds, standing still in the open, and you cant even get a shot off, its annoying.

Author:  Kaboodles [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

It was even worse in 2.0. It was even more accurate for run-and-gun, and if I recall correctly, you could even blind enemies from behind with the secondary.

Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  BW weapons play/Effects Bugs

Fixed your hyperlink. Make sure you put the url in the "Hyperlink Url" part of the code.

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