RuneStorm
http://www.runestorm.com/forums/

Man portable 20mm rifle
http://www.runestorm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46348		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  sgnl05 [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
I just found this browsing the net. It's pretty much the coolest gun ever made; don't even try and argue this because you'll just end up being very wrong :p

wiki link

youtube vid

Yup. It's called the NTW-20 and at 20mm it's only 5mm smaller than the cannon on the M2 Bradley. Sure, it doesn't fire fast like the Bradley cannon does, but it's still almost a vehicle weapon in sniper rifle form.

So yeah. Discuss. I didn't post it in the weapons section since it doesn't really relate to BW, I just thought it was really cool and wanted to post about it somewhere.

Oh, and it's made in South Africa, so the Runestorm team should totally save their pennies, buy one and then post endless videos of them shooting bottles with it :p
Author:  OCAdam [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
I think that gun is freakin' awesome, just check my comment on the Youtube link. I think this barrel switching thing should be used in a new BW weapon really!
Author:  James [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
that seems to advanced and confusing for BW, but players who knew what the hell they were doing would have a high advantage. You wouldn't be able to walk around/run and fire that thing you know? you have to go total prone to use it.

I love how Halo used that rifle, kind of :P
and i love how theres an earth quake every time it was shot in the video.
Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Wow. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of that thing. 20mm is like an underbarrel grenade!
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Be a neat rifle to see used in BW, though it'd make more sense to be on a fast moving vehcicle (that would own).
Author:  James [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
A sniper rifle attached to a fast vehicle? remember, you have to hit the target to kill it.....
Author:  Yokelassence [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Or not, sounds like you could just fire next to your target and it will still get em.

How would you balance this thing?
Author:  Tyster [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Lol. Good point, James. The twin beams on the Hellbender are hard enough to use. I generally let the bots use that. However, a vehicle-mounted sniper rifle would be practical in game play similar to halo, where everything is big and slow. Ut04 is just the opposite.
Author:  thetrunkmonkey [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
that weapon looks wicked sick :D
Author:  James [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Yokelassence wrote:
Or not, sounds like you could just fire next to your target and it will still get em.


not necessarily.....
even with the explosion, you would have to hit right near the person(maybe within a yard or so). Try aiming a mini-cannon/sniper rifle while being whipped around turns and going off ramps at high speeds. good luck
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Yokelassence wrote:
Or not, sounds like you could just fire next to your target and it will still get em.

How would you balance this thing?


Exactly, give it two ammo options, 1 for explosive (splash damage half size of G5, good for infantry or light vehicles) and other for armor penetrating (little splash damage but high damage if hit)
Author:  James [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
i agree with that, but not while driving around in a car =l
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Yeah, on foot then?
Author:  EnteR [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
NTW-20 + Vehicle sounds waaay to ''like all other FPS games''. Its like a cannon on a buggy/tank/car, which we have seen some times.
Running around with that thing would be more fun though, but it should weight much, and you have to carry the gun on the shoulder somehow (Bazooka style) then prone to fire. It would be cool. :D
Author:  sgnl05 [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Well, if it were to appear in BW, I think it would work like so:

Either impossible to fire while undeployed, or just really, really hard.

Instant kill for a direct hit, and instant kill to high damage for the splash, depending on how close to the target you hit. Splash damage should be quite small though.

Fire rate is in slower than the sniper rifle but faster than the rail gun.

The shots aren't instant hit and have a bit of a trajectory, so you'll have to lead your shots against moving targets, and possibly aim up a little too.

That should balance it I think. Harder to hit things with than the rail gun, but you can kill people by dropping a shell a metre or so away from them, and it fires a little faster. Making it deployable would mean that it's even less useful on the move than the railgun.
Author:  Kaboodles [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
You could just modify the Rail Gun to require mounting instead of having to model an entirely new weapon. I mean, they'd fill the exact same role. The Rail Gun fires 20mm rounds at hypersonic speeds, capable of flipping tanks. That generate enough recoil to tear your arm off.
Author:  sgnl05 [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
hrrm? I just explained why it'd be very different to the railgun in my post above. Also, I'm pretty sure the railgun fires much smaller rounds than 20mm.
Author:  Kaboodles [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
sgnl05 wrote:
hrrm? I just explained why it'd be very different to the railgun in my post above. Also, I'm pretty sure the railgun fires much smaller rounds than 20mm.


Nope, 20mm slugs. Says so from the ammo pickups. The Railgun would be much more powerful than this rifle, being powered by a mini-nuke reactor on your back.

sgnl05 wrote:
Instant kill for a direct hit, and instant kill to high damage for the splash, depending on how close to the target you hit. Splash damage should be quite small though.


There really wouldn't be any splash damage to speak of here. It would pretty much be equivalent to the Rail gun's splash.
Author:  shifty [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:14 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
i know what i want for christmas...lol

no splash with with normal round but having explosive or burst munitions would make up for that.

i like it i like it alot :)

could you just copy and edit the halo gun and put that in to ut. cos that would be kool, except change the scope cos the halo scope with the random wavy lines lookin like a heart beat monitor sucks.
THIS GUN OWNS
Author:  sgnl05 [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:45 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Kaboodles wrote:
Nope, 20mm slugs. Says so from the ammo pickups. The Railgun would be much more powerful than this rifle, being powered by a mini-nuke reactor on your back.



Aah, I didn't notice that. Still, if you're firing 20mm rounds I don't think it matters how whether they're traveling at hypersonic speeds or slower; any infantry in the way of them is still all sorts of dead.

Kaboodles wrote:
There really wouldn't be any splash damage to speak of here. It would pretty much be equivalent to the Rail gun's splash.



Well not from the armour piercing rounds, sure, but I was talking about the explosive ones. Did you watch the video? There was a shot of a 20mm explosive round hitting something and there was a small blast. Of course it's impossible to tell what the lethal radius would be from that second or so of footage, but when you consider shrapnel I'd think that anything within 2 meters of where the round lands would at least stand a good chance of being seriously injured. The railgun can't do that.
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
sgnl05 wrote:
Kaboodles wrote:
There really wouldn't be any splash damage to speak of here. It would pretty much be equivalent to the Rail gun's splash.



Well not from the armour piercing rounds, sure, but I was talking about the explosive ones. Did you watch the video? There was a shot of a 20mm explosive round hitting something and there was a small blast. Of course it's impossible to tell what the lethal radius would be from that second or so of footage, but when you consider shrapnel I'd think that anything within 2 meters of where the round lands would at least stand a good chance of being seriously injured. The railgun can't do that.


Exactlty the explosive rounds ones would give off splash damage.
Author:  Kaboodles [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
sgnl05 wrote:

Aah, I didn't notice that. Still, if you're firing 20mm rounds I don't think it matters how whether they're traveling at hypersonic speeds or slower; any infantry in the way of them is still all sorts of dead.



Well, a Railgun's 20mm round is quite survivable in this game (even headshots at full charge might be surivable, with enough health and armor, though I aim to change that with my tweakings). Although, those are just the numbers for direct contact damage. I'm not sure how the weapon's splash damage would factor in here, if at all.

sgnl05 wrote:

Well not from the armour piercing rounds, sure, but I was talking about the explosive ones. Did you watch the video? There was a shot of a 20mm explosive round hitting something and there was a small blast. Of course it's impossible to tell what the lethal radius would be from that second or so of footage, but when you consider shrapnel I'd think that anything within 2 meters of where the round lands would at least stand a good chance of being seriously injured. The railgun can't do that.



Consider that the Railgun fires its rounds at ultra-high speeds and is capable of punch through tank armor and nail targets through meters-thick walls using pure kinetic energy. That right there should release quite a lot of shrapnel and harmful stuff on contact. Probably even more so on the other side of the wall, as it would be displacing a lot of material there.

Looking at the code, the Railgun does 60 * Railpower splash damage at a 48 + (48 * Railpower) UU radius. In English terms, at a full charge, it does a total of 60 splash damage to targets very close to the impact site, with damage reducing over 96 UUs (1 meter = 50 UUs in UT2004). At half charge, it would do 30 damage over 72 UUs.

So the Railgun can already somewhat do what you're asking for here, albeit with lower numbers.
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Your such a party pooper Kab.
Author:  sgnl05 [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
If we ignore what the railgun "should" be able to do and instead focus on what it actually does, I think there'd be plenty of room for this thing along side it. It's perfectly feasible for the NTW to have a smallish blast radius that would actually be useful, unlike the railgun's which pretty much isn't. Factor in the ballistic trajectory of the NTW shells and you've got a weapon which is actually pretty different to the railgun in both looks and application.

Of course it's all purely hypothetical, since the NTW will never be in BW, but if something similar did, I think it'd be plenty different from the railgun.
Author:  Kaboodles [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
The problem is balancing it so that it's useful. It wouldn't be able to one-shot a tank. Hell, 3 shots would be pushing it. With a ballistic trajectory, it's even harder to hit targets at a distance. Sure it might be different from the Railgun, but would it necessarily be useful?
Author:  Mr.UglyPants [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
I'd still use it, just like i use the Skrith Rifle instead of the M50 (or new S-AR 12) at times because its a cool weapon, totally different, even though sometimes its way easier to gain the kills from a M50.
Author:  Yokelassence [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
The Skrith rifle is in a very different league from the M50, I can find reasons to carry both.

Perhaps a good example comparison is the XRS-10 and the S-AR as both those weapons are virtually identical except one of them lets you hold 2. But personal preference stops the other from being ignored. (The S-AR is just so cool)

If the S-AR can do it, so can the the 20mm rifle but despite the evidence that it can succeed as a duplicate. It just seems very...well...boring to me and I feel efforts should be guided towards new ideas.

How many different sniper rifles can you have?

Theres the one that takes forever to load but does loads of damage, killing in one shot.
theres the one that almost kills in one shot but can refire quicker,
then theres the one that takes a few bullets to get a kill but can fire quickly

Either way you make this Halo gun, it will still end up being just another artifact from another FPS shooter.

Im still waiting for that Shard cannon
Author:  sgnl05 [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Kaboodles wrote:
The problem is balancing it so that it's useful. It wouldn't be able to one-shot a tank. Hell, 3 shots would be pushing it. With a ballistic trajectory, it's even harder to hit targets at a distance. Sure it might be different from the Railgun, but would it necessarily be useful?


I think the trick would be balancing the size and damage of the blast so that you don't need pinpoint accuracy to kill someone, but landing the shot close enough would still be a challenge. Get that right and you've got an interesting new gun that will differentiate itself nicely from the railgun.

Also, if you took the time to get insanely good with this thing it'd be much better than a railgun, since a direct hit will be an instant kill and it'd have a higher rate of fire. Of course you'd have to be able to drop shells directly on player from long ranges, so it doesn't seem very likely.

As for vehicles, the explosive shells wouldn't be very useful, no. Armour piecing rounds would probably eat light vehicles alive, but penetrating the goliath could be tricky.

I think the railgun is far too good as an anti tank weapon right now though. Hitting infantry with it can be a challenge, but it's far too easy to kill most vehicles. I've been thinking that the railgun's damage should be seriously reduced against vehicles for gameplay reasons. It could be explained as "the shots simply pass straight through the vehicle without causing must damage". This is actually a real phenomenon; in world war two heavy tanks would shoot at light tanks but their rounds would be so powerful they'd punch right through the tank and out the other side, sometimes leaving the tank and crew totally unharmed (except for two new windows :p).

Whoa, guess I got a little sidetracked, eh?
Author:  Tyster [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Yokelassence wrote:
How many different sniper rifles can you have?

I count 2 (I don't think battle rifle is a sniper). To put it in perspective, we have 5 or 6 pistols, so far.
Author:  Yokelassence [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Man portable 20mm rifle
Indeed, im not saying we cant have more sniper rifles. But I cant think of a way to make more than 3 of them unique. Im hoping anything new would have something new about them.

But knowing runestorm, they will just make it look pretty and give it a laser sight and I will be happy with it anyway.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 6 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/