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Good game series and horrible death by developers.
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Author:  Herr General [ Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Good game series and horrible death by developers.
What do you think best qualifies as a good game series that was horribly ruined by developers or other companies?

For me, there's quite a few.

Westwood Studios. They were far better at making Command and Conquer than EA ever was. Every C&C game from Westwood was incredibly excellent, (especially Red Alert) whereas EA flopped with almost everything. (however, I am one of the few C&C fans who actually liked Generals)

Spyro the Dragon. Plenty of nostalgia with this one, as I grew up on PS1 platformers. The first three were excellent, the fourth kinda sucked, and the rest...let's not go there.

Call of Duty. So many things bother me about this franchise that it's not even funny. CoD4 was a very good game. However, with MW2 and Black Ops, they threw realism, plot, and general credibility out the window. Don't even get me started on this topic or else I'll be ranting all night.

James Bond. There's no real turning point here, they just gradually went downhill for me. Nightfire and Everything or Nothing were the best for me, especially Nightfire. I would spend hours with a friend on splitscreen having the time of my life.

Tomb Raider. 'Nuff said. That's one franchise that they should just let die. It was good originally, but bringing it back from the dead so many times is getting on my nerves.

This is going to be a contentious one.
Halo.
Don't get me wrong, Bungie did an incredible job on the series for their part, excluding ODST. ODST had so many story errors that it hurt my brain.
However, I have the feeling that Microsoft will ruin it. Just a hunch, and I hope I'm wrong, but I dread Halo 4. It should have been left at Halo 3- that was a GOOD cliffhanger ending, and did a damn good job of providing closure. Revival is just wrong, in my opinion. As for the remake, Halo 1 is one of the few games that should be remade in one way only- graphical. Adding features and such will ruin the experience for me.

Post your additions!
Author:  Black Eagle [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
I think you're forgetting the biggest one... Unreal 2, this isn't Unreal!?... ;)

I think digital extremes did most of the work on the original, unless epic changed completely at some point and then made a hash of things... ;)
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
DE did some of the work on the original (mainly the lead designer alongside CliffyB) i think...
Legend did U2. Made a legendary hash of things.. hah.. ha.. uhhh

C&C? I can't remember any that i've played being bad.. The worst was Tiberian Sun. Generals was awesome and so was C&C: Tiberium Wars :)

CoD? meh.. bah..

TombRaider? Who knows. New one looks like one to watch. Old ones that i played were good. The newer ones also look good.

Halo? Only played the original on PC. Didn't like. Never played the others.
Author:  Blade sword [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Rainbow Six while the first game was the first tactical shooter, but it wasn't well refined, achieved its apogée with Rainbow six 3, they made a rainbow six I think it's lockdown, and ruined the series forever with Vegas and its sequels.

Deus Ex, with Invisible war and even now Deus Ex 3 who will have the same destiny as Rainbow six

Sonic the hedgehog. sonic the hedgehog pretty much suffered when the games transited from the 2D to 3D ...

I have to agree with the unreal series, they were grood with Unreal 1 and Tournament, but it lost its personality with the sequels ...

Alien vs predator the 2 firsts were good, but the latest one while not being a crap, pretty much finished it ...

I have other game series in mind but I think those are enough.
Author:  Black Eagle [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
ShadowBlade wrote:
Halo? Only played the original on PC. Didn't like. Never played the others.


Good story, dull gameplay and feeling... Got better further in though, so it gets an ok rating... ;)

Herr General wrote:
Tomb Raider. 'Nuff said. That's one franchise that they should just let die. It was good originally, but bringing it back from the dead so many times is getting on my nerves.


I've liked all the tomb raider games so far, although they used to be longer...
But the new ones are starting to look more interesting... ;)
Author:  Vani [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
I agree with CoD.
It was a good game, sucks now, because the company is cash hungry and is only looking for kiddy-consoleros.
Author:  Beta_krogoth [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
I completely disagree with blade about the rainbow 6 series, i used to hate them, then when vega came out, me and my friends spent hours on it! amazing game - and the second one is even better.

I also think that the new splinter cell is very good, a reboot thats acutally worked!

But i think the new tome raider will be shite, most likely another Metriod other M. Made me lose all respect for samus that game... just awful!
Author:  Herr General [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Beta_krogoth wrote:
I completely disagree with blade about the rainbow 6 series, i used to hate them, then when vega came out, me and my friends spent hours on it! amazing game - and the second one is even better.



Agreed with me- Vegas 2 is one of my favorite shooters of all time.
Author:  Klotzstein [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Epic Games:
Unreal 2 was somehow weird and failed for me in my option
Why? Because it is not in any way connected to Unreal 1

Unreal Tournament 2004 . The engine is nice but i have nothing personaly against it but the Default weapons of it are looking boring especially the effect is not that special i know it is old but i mean Unreal 2 Did a better job

WestWood. it is hard to say about it because they have influence with EA games
C&C Tiberian Dawn was good and great story. lots of cutscene makes it good to make a Mod based upon it. Even though the balance is weird

Tiberian Sun. As i was buying the game and looked at the Backcover it said if i have other Game too i would get more units! But no. all was some weird Beta screenshots that shows also Navals iirc. And i was heavly disasspointment of the Backcover.
And like said it is for me a bit stupid that it jumpes from the 90's ages to the Future
with Fast moving mechs etc...

Dune 2000. Well yeah they did also a good job on it but
1: The sounds is... Weird.
2: The balance has been changed too.
I cant remeber what i should say more

Dune Battle for Emperor:
What i really like on this is the Territorys! That also has some few effects on your future play and plays not that linear. And able to choose Alliances with subfaction great idea
The move from Devastator Tank to Robot is for me a bit retarded because that Heavy Tank is slow enough and being a Robot it would be even more Slower.
And that you can choose (I play there as Harkonnen no idea on other faction)
for which Son of the baron you would fight for is nice But i am also disaspointment because, It has hardly any impact. Only on the cutscences and more not
The Endings are fail. no sorry but i liked the Dune2/2000 ending more it was really destructive! And that a turretless Tank in a future is a bit wrong i think but i still like it.
Especially the Unit sounds of Harkonnen i like it! They are all mad and crazy, while the order sounds normally and boring in my opinion

Melbourne house:
KKnD (Krush Kill 'n' Destroy [no typo])

I think the idea of it is very unique i cannot remember a RTS game where you can choose as a Survivor or as a Freak-- Err Mutants in an Post apocalyptic world!
Limited resources make the battle hard and having to decide well for what units you should build. What i find sad on it is because you cant make mods for it only stats changes with an Editor. And what i am missing also is of Cutscense of Units like on C&C but there is missing, well of course there ARE some but only on briefing.
And the endings are very Ironically and sarcastic i think.
Well yeah pretty much
Author:  Blade sword [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
KKND the only game with giant crabs filled with missile launchers wee
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Hmm... well. I loved Halo: ODST. I thought it was one of the better SP stories in the series. I didn't really look for or care about any story errors. I just loved the environment, the details, the characters, and the presentation. Loved the Rookie sections more though, as playing as the veteran ODSTs felt a bit less unique and atmospheric.

Sonic the Hedgehog: Well. If sega can still sell the series to the preteen audience successfully, I would say they didn't fail. But most of the 3d games were nothing close to the Sonic I remember. Adding a poop load of unnecessary characters (for crying out load, he's Sonic THE Hedgehog, don't be going around adding a Shadow and Silver the Hedgehog, they aren't THE hedgehog), changing it from a fast, momentum based platformer into a lame 3d walking game, making it take place in some area with a human population and towns, having any of the actually fast segments sticking on a linear path practically on rails, adding an overly complicated story... Eish. Just give me Sonic 3 any day. Though the newer ones look pretty good, taking the Good parts of Sonic Unleashed (the 2d/3d hybrid sections when you weren't that horribly stupid werewolf thing) and sticking with just that? Sounds good to me.
Author:  Sporkman! [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Hmmm...

Call of Duty: Oh dear god. MW2 and Black Ops are... OK, story-wise, but the gameplay has lost a LOT. Seriously. I'm very glad I pirated MW2, rather than bought it, because I deleted it after the first couple missions. That sucked. Terribly.

Unreal Tournament: UT99 and UT2k4 are very good, though UT2k4 is lacking in the visual department for the most part. I actually like the assault rifle's 2k3 look; one of the projects I've been thinking about doing is taking the 2k4 version's upper rail/carry handle and welding it to the 2k3's body, then giving it to somebody to import to BW. UT3 was nice, visual-wise (dear god, the scenery porn!), but gameplay-wise it felt... tired. Though it was nice to have Enforcers again, the return to UT99 armor was nice (somebody should do that as a mutator), and the SPMA's need to deploy felt very refreshing, it felt like a rehash of the previous games. A bad rehash, at that.

HALO: Hmmmm... honistly, the first three arn't bad, I've never even had a chance to try Reich, but I'm really, really fearful of what might happen at Microsoft's hands. Why?

Mechwarrior: THIS is why. After Mechwarrior 3, Microsoft took over... and some of the stuff went downhill BADLY. MW4 has worse graphics than 3, but has higher system requirements - and suddenly implemented a 'weapon slot' system rather than the Hardpoints of the earlier games, which made it impossible to create a number of mech variants that exist in Battletech.
Thankfully, the fandom comes to save the day here: Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries got upgraded by Mektek with a TON more mechs, bug fixes, hitbox fixes (seriously, the default hitboxes were horrible - some had holes in them), and a number of gameplay improvements. And now it's available for free. Huzzah!

Unreal: Yes, I'm making this separate. Unreal 1 was AMAZING. Unreal 2 was pretty terrible. The big issue was the story, which really made everyone look like idiots in U2.
Author:  TurdDrive [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Stalker Clear Sky,

In a way a very good game, But it was so bug filled i couldn't even complete the game, Every 15 seconds it would crash on a certain level, And the cut-seen was about 1 min long :lol:
Author:  Sporkman! [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
TurdDrive wrote:
Stalker Clear Sky,

In a way a very good game, But it was so bug filled i couldn't even complete the game, Every 15 seconds it would crash on a certain level, And the cut-seen was about 1 min long :lol:


... the first STALKER was just as buggy, trust me. There's a reason the most popular mods amount to unofficial patches.
Author:  Sarge [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Black Eagle wrote:
I think you're forgetting the biggest one... Unreal 2, this isn't Unreal!?... ;)

I think digital extremes did most of the work on the original, unless epic changed completely at some point and then made a hash of things... ;)


Don't be hating! it was a good game.......
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
It was mediocre, but it wasn't Unreal! The best Unreal games are Unreal 1 and UT99 by far. UT3 is 3rd best i'd say. UT2k3 was an abomination. Good for modding though :)
Author:  SX [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Got me a list, this is gonna be good.

Unreal 2 and UT3:

Unreal 2 isn't a bad game, but it's not Unreal, it's just space marines finding artifacts to make a superpowered race of aliens stronger. Even though there were mentions of Izanagi and Skarrj, that alone didn't make it Unreal. Then there's the tacked on multiplayer, which didn't get far. OK game, but it's not Unreal.

UT3 on the other hand, is an Unreal game, but I think this is Epic Games saying "We don't give a toss about PC gaming anymore." The UI was bad pre-Titan Pack, the story had nothing to with Tournaments at all, the custom content was a BANE to install without a readme. Granted, it's a good game, but I think Epic should've took a little more better care of this, the promise of two story modes and the aforementioned Conquest mode would've saved it from being average.


Crash the Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon:

Both of these series have a parallel history, both had a great trilogy of games for the PS1, Crash Bandicoot had great linear platforming while Spyro was more of a sprawling explorer, collecting gems and eggs. But when their creators moved to the PS2, these two were left in hands of different developers, then nothing was the same anymore. Both were getting muddled up by horrid glitches, confused plots and worst of all, doing different things from what they're used to. These days, Crash and Spyro are lost in memory, their bad games left a stain on what was good series.


Jak and Daxter Series:

The same developers who made Crash Bandicoot made another awesome trilogy of open world platforming, the Jak and Daxter series had three great games for the PS2, with great platforming, excellent humor and a great sense of depth. Things began to slip when Jak X Racing was released, wasn't a bad game, no; but it wasn't a great game either, then Daxter came out for the PSP. It was sort of better since it was still sprawling platforming, but it lacked charm to me. Then the Lost Frontier came out and that hurt, the charm wasn't there, the platforming felt slow and that sense of depth was gone. There hasn't been a PS3 release, hopefully there will be one.


Ratchet and Clank:

This isn't a bad series, but it is showing it's "We're milking the cash cow" cards, 11 games in (counting the cell phone game) and it's nothing we haven't seen before. A double edged sword in gaming, while it's nice to have familiarity, a lack of variety also hurts because monotony can be a game killer. Not much to say but there's got to be an end soon.


Sonic the Hedgehog:

All familiar with this one: A great platformer in 2d was slowly killed when it hit 3d. Sonic Colors was alright though.

Call of Duty:

Oh this one gets OLD, a realistic FPS with a linear single player mode, successful multiplayer and the odd Zombie/Spec Op mode. Another sign of "Milking the Cash Cow."


I'll stop for now, I got a few others in mind.
Author:  Herr General [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
SX wrote:
Got me a list, this is gonna be good.




Crash the Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon:

Both of these series have a parallel history, both had a great trilogy of games for the PS1, Crash Bandicoot had great linear platforming while Spyro was more of a sprawling explorer, collecting gems and eggs. But when their creators moved to the PS2, these two were left in hands of different developers, then nothing was the same anymore. Both were getting muddled up by horrid glitches, confused plots and worst of all, doing different things from what they're used to. These days, Crash and Spyro are lost in memory, their bad games left a stain on what was good series.


Ratchet and Clank:

This isn't a bad series, but it is showing it's "We're milking the cash cow" cards, 11 games in (counting the cell phone game) and it's nothing we haven't seen before. A double edged sword in gaming, while it's nice to have familiarity, a lack of variety also hurts because monotony can be a game killer. Not much to say but there's got to be an end soon.



Call of Duty:

Oh this one gets OLD, a realistic FPS with a linear single player mode, successful multiplayer and the odd Zombie/Spec Op mode. Another sign of "Milking the Cash Cow."



Agreed completely with Spyro and Crash Bandicoot.

Ratchet and Clank was excellent on PS2 (the first 3 games), and I don't have a PS3 so I don't know how it works now.

CoD and realistic should NEVER be in the same sentence.
Author:  SX [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Forgot to put the quotation marks around Realistic. Oops.

Ratchet and Clank on the PS3 is the same, the sole exception being the upcoming game All 4 One. Instead of being a single player third person shooter, it is a top down four player co-op shooter.
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
SX wrote:
UT3:

UT3 on the other hand, is an Unreal game, but I think this is Epic Games saying "We don't give a toss about PC gaming anymore." The UI was bad pre-Titan Pack, the story had nothing to with Tournaments at all, the custom content was a BANE to install without a readme. Granted, it's a good game, but I think Epic should've took a little more better care of this, the promise of two story modes and the aforementioned Conquest mode would've saved it from being average.


I thought the story for UT3 was the strong point. I could really care less about the "story" of a tournament; two sides fight, winner progresses. That's it. Really can't get more complicated than that.

UT3 however, taking elements from the UT universe and throwing it into war? Awesome! The battles felt like they were a significant part of the war (ONS and Assault go a long ways towards that), though the last section when you kept fighting the Necris chick only for her to escape was a bit lame.

I'd say its only fault (not counting UI...) is really the lack of content available from release. Characters were rather boring, limited selection of maps, and few available mutators. Plus the majority of modders working on that engine moved on to their own standalone games. :P

SX wrote:
Sonic the Hedgehog:

All familiar with this one: A great platformer in 2d was slowly killed when it hit 3d. Sonic Colors was alright though.


Slowly? What games were you playing...? Sonic 3d Blast was thoroughly suck and it really didn't get much better after that. Sonic Colors and the not stupid sections of Unleashed looked interesting, and Sonic 4 is pretty fun, and Generations looks to be awesome.

But it died fast when it hit 3d. Its just slowly getting better from here on out.

By the way, for some mostly decent 3d sonic fun for free, check out Sonic Robo Blast. Very fun sonic game based off Doom engine, has lots of high speed running and platforming, but since its doom engine, don't expect a lot of ramps or loops and hills, which, I know, is a big part of classic sonic, but if you think about it, Sonic Adventure 2 and stuff? They might as well not had those hills, wholly linear experience you had there. Not SRB though, which is awesome.
Author:  SX [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
When i said slowly, i meant starting from sonic heroes to sonic and the secret rings, those titles tarnished his rep. I loved sonic adventure 2.
Author:  Sarge [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
The next installment of Call of duty...................... Hahaha.....watch the whole thing plz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4

an also, U2 was a great game, so what if it didnt follow the story I dont care. it was decent ;P
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
SX wrote:
When i said slowly, i meant starting from sonic heroes to sonic and the secret rings, those titles tarnished his rep. I loved sonic adventure 2.


Hah, you think those were bad? :P

Clearly you didn't play Sonic 3D Blast.

Sonic Adventure 2 was decent, but I didn't like how they made Tails incapable of doing anything outside his robot suit. Granted, those were fun levels, but I didn't care much for the idea.

But still, Sonic Adventure 2 didn't really have much to do with the original series. Very little exploration, no forking paths, no fast paced platforming (either you ran or you platformed slowly), no momentum based levels; it was pretty much just on a rail, something Sonic should never be.
Author:  SX [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
And you never played sonic 2006, at least 3d blast was finished and non glitchy.
Author:  TurdDrive [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Sporkman! wrote:
TurdDrive wrote:
Stalker Clear Sky,

In a way a very good game, But it was so bug filled i couldn't even complete the game, Every 15 seconds it would crash on a certain level, And the cut-seen was about 1 min long :lol:


... the first STALKER was just as buggy, trust me. There's a reason the most popular mods amount to unofficial patches.

The first one was definitely not as bad for me, but I did hear about the bugs it had,
Author:  arbee [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Tom Clancy's Everything. Seriously, with the way Ubisoft milks things in very hand holding ways it's turning his name into something like Hasbro, especially with that "H.A.W.X" series.
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
SX wrote:
And you never played sonic 2006, at least 3d blast was finished and non glitchy.


Hah, no, I played that. Tolerable in doses, if its the one I am thinking of (Silver in it?), but Sonic 3d Blast had nothing to do with speed or at least the illusion of speed. But seriously, Sonic Robo Blast; try it.
Author:  SX [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
So is 3D Blast, if you're playing the Dreamcast/PC Version.

I'm defending that Sonic 2006 sucks, and 3D blast is not that bad as you make it out to be.


As for Sonic Robo Blast, I'll have a look see.
Author:  arbee [ Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Sonic's a slippery slope in general. Being part of the Sonic community at the SEGA forums for years, there's this group that want unbuggy straight Sonic games, and there's this weird chao garden lots of characters roleplaying group that seems to undermine all new sonic games as 'terrible' unless it's Sonic Adventure 3 or Sonic Advance 4.

I'm kind of a hated 'fish out of water' there because I'm not onto the "Adventure = best" bandwagon, and I do not have an OC or fursona or whatever like that, therefore disqualifying me as a "real Sonic fan" despite having played Sonic games since 1991.
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Good game series and horrible death by developers.
Wut...? OCs or fursonas are required to be a legit sonic fan? Laaaame.

I like Sonic 1, 2, 3, S&K, and I loved the sonic advance games (only had first two), since they were what I loved of the classics, and the new characters aren't just an excuse to make lame story arcs, but rather to give you alternate ways of approaching the same game with new paths (like knuckles when originally introduced).

As far as Sonic 2006, I won't argue that it doesn't suck, and Sonic 3d Blast in and of itself wasn't bad, but it shouldn't have been a Sonic game, just make it an excuse to resurrect the Flicky game (practically was already). And I played it on Sega Saturn and Genesis.

BTW, the StH comics are surprisingly good, when trying to read my old ones from like 10 years ago, I was expecting horrible writing and characters, but I was pleasantly surprised. The impressive bit is that the same comic series is STILL going! No idea if it got worse later on, but it sucked initially, though it got really good by about the 18-20th issue.
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