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Acquiring a new computer
http://www.runestorm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=77216		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Reivaj [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Acquiring a new computer
I have a very limited computer to play UT3 and Turok in good conditions. Now, if I install any actual game (like FEAR 2 or 3, Crysis 2... or future games like Rage, Serious Sam...), I have to decrease very much the graphic options. Or many of them will not run.

This is my actual computer:
- Motherboard: P4 ASUS P5VDC-X SK775
- CPU: Intel P4 3.4 Ghz D945 SK775
- RAM: 2 GB DDR2 667 Kingston
- Graphic Card: GeForce 7300 GT 256 MB
- HDD: 250 GB Seagate SATA2
- SO: Windows XP Media Center

I thought to update some components, but unfortunately if I change some component, probably I have to change other things for incompatibility.

So I decided to adquire a new computer, in which they soon call me (I hope that this week), and I go to the shop for construct my new computer with their help.

This is my selection:
- Box: NOX COOLBAY 25 (I love this tower!)
- Power Supply: Tacens Radix IV 13.9C 700W
- Motherboard: ASUS P8P67 LE B3 SK1155
- Intel Core i7 2600 3.4 Ghz SK1155 8 MB
- CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D14 6 Heatpipe
- RAM: 16 GB (4x4 GB) DDR3 1600 Kingston HyperX CL9
- Graphic Card: ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II 1280 MB DDR5
- Multi-card Reader: Coolbox CR500 + Bluetooth
- DVD: LG Bluray RE-Writer BH12LS30 SATA
- Hard Disc: SSD (Solid State Disc) 60 GB OCZ Agility 3 SATA3
- Hard Disc: 2 TB Seagate 7200 64 MB Barracuda XT SATA3
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bits

What do you think, guys?

I'm also a little scared, because I don't know if any old game I have will be run with 64 Bits (Jazz Jackrabbit 2, Unreal...)

I'm so happy for this selection, and I hope to play soon with UT3 and Turok with all graphic settings activated!

Woo hoo!! :banana-dance:
Author:  Bjossi [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Reivaj wrote:
- RAM: 16 GB (4x4 GB) DDR3 1600 Kingston HyperX CL9


If your primary activity is gaming, this is a massive waste of money. Not to mention that for DDR3 you want to run 3 memory sticks in triple-channel, 4 sticks is a bad number to go for. If I were you I would go with 2x2x2 GB.

Quote:
- Hard Disc: SSD (Solid State Disc) 60 GB OCZ Agility 3 SATA3


Although the speed gain of SSDs is nice, I hope you understand how this technology works. Which, judging by "Hard Disc: SSD", you probably have some research to do.

While hard drives' life expectancy is rated/predicted on number of spin ups/spin downs, SSDs are rated based on number of reads and writes. Just by the act of making your computer sit idle in Windows the SSD is constantly being accessed and each read wears out a particular data cell. Only a few dead cells will render the entire drive broken. There are low-level data distribution prioritizers in place to make sure each cell gets used well before the first cell dies, but this isn't bulletproof and doesn't address the read limitation.

Obviously these drives are the future and the technology is constantly being improved, but they are still rough around the edges and expensive. I imagine hard drives still have a much higher potential life time than any SSD, potential being the key word.

Quote:
I'm also a little scared, because I don't know if any old game I have will be run with 64 Bits (Jazz Jackrabbit 2, Unreal...)


Both of these are 32-bit programs and therefore work fine when emulated through WoW64. Situations where WoW64 fails at emulating 32-bit programs are next to none. But for 16-bit emulation you will need a 3rd party emulator like DOSbox, as Microsoft ditched 16-bit support on the OS level of their 64-bit variants.
Author:  Reivaj [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
I saw in a magazine a "closed configuration computer" with the same components at 1499€ (euros). The only thing I don't like was the graphics card, so I go to another shop to ask the same components but changing the graphic card. The computer in the magazine has 16 GB RAM and I got carried away for it.

At first I remove the SSD hard disk for lower the cost, but I was advised to put the SSD for the Windows loading speed. I also knew that these hard drives have a limited lifespan by the continuing reads and writes of the chips, but the man insisted on putting the SSD, so I decided to put.

If I was posted this thread before, perhaps I was changed the selection thanks to your help. Unfortunately the computer is already order.

Thank you for the information Bjossi!
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
ARGH 16 GB DDR3 you might aswell set your money on fire :O

ssd hardDrives are awesome and fast as hell,

i7 Processor, damnnn..

700W Power Supply, Enjoy your racked up Electricity Bills ;)

I'll be honest, You dont need all that :O

Yes you can play games maxed out, but i can play cysis maxed out without no problems and i have a much lower processor, and i have 6gb memory.

Although it feels nice to brag about your Super computer, its also a massive waste of money, The only computers that would need 16gb memory is computers which develop games,

My computer uses 500W and may monitor uses 500W thats 1000W Just for my computer :O
I have a 42" monitor though,

if you want something that money could have went towards.. Maybe a 3dtv?

Imagine playig crysis 2 Stereoscopic 3d maxed out, THATS Living the Gamers Dream
Author:  CMGuy [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
I also plan on upgrading, but I don't really need all that, my processor may be old, but its still good. Even today.

IMO u don't need all that.
Author:  Bjossi [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Grizzlykiller wrote:
700W Power Supply, Enjoy your racked up Electricity Bills ;)


If you think that is bad, look at the i7's power consumption when it is overclocked.
Author:  TurdDrive [ Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Grizzlykiller wrote:
ARGH 16 GB DDR3 you might aswell set your money on fire :O

ssd hardDrives are awesome and fast as hell,

i7 Processor, damnnn..

700W Power Supply, Enjoy your racked up Electricity Bills ;)


Yes you can play games maxed out, but i can play cysis maxed out without no problems and i have a much lower processor, and i have 6gb memory.

its also a massive waste of money, The only computers that would need 16gb memory is computers which develop games,

My computer uses 500W and may monitor uses 500W thats 1000W Just for my computer :O
I have a 42" monitor though,



Lol, if your monitor if taking in 500 watt you have a seriouse problem.
Plus, its not a waste of money, its called future proofing your computer. Also you have 6 Gig of RAM? no avarage user has 6GB, 4GB is plenty. He won't need to buy an upgrade as quickly as you do. lus an i7 is well worth the investment. Its money-preformance ratio is superb.


Quote:
If you think that is bad, look at the i7's power consumption when it is overclocked.


Luckily the i& has that auto-clock thing, so it only ses higher Hz when your using it.
Author:  CMGuy [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
nevertheless its ur choice, everyone has thier own opinion on how they wish to build or upgrade thier machine. For me I prefer a balance of cost and quality. Ima upgrading soon, b4 BF3 comes out lolz.

Go for it, but don't be crying to us if ur PC asplodes. :P
Author:  TurdDrive [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Lol, My PC, wich i have built, is probably the most stable PC i've ever had. Plus if something goes wrong, I will know what.
Author:  CMGuy [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
But wut happens if it asplodes? As unlikely that is, wut would u do if it asploded in ur face? :P

Well for me I have a backup drive and get a new PC at best, or better, get a backup PC, problem is that cost many moneys...
Author:  Bjossi [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
TurdDrive wrote:
Plus, its not a waste of money, its called future proofing your computer.


In what context exactly? Buying 16 GBs today is a waste of money when gaming is concerned. Like with GPUs it is not the storage capacity that matters the most, it is the speed of processing. In a few years you will have those 16 GBs, sure, but they will most likely be a snail compared to the contemporary 16 GB setups, rendering the whole idea of future proofing completely pointless. Why buy 16 GBs, most of which will never be used, when by the time they actually come in handy there will be much faster 16 GB setups for a fair price? High speed benefits you today, high capacity does not.

One could just settle for 6 GBs (Since that is, as you said, more than enough and will be for a while longer.) and then buy those 2x2x2x2 (2^4=16) GBs when we have DDR4, quad channel, higher clock frequencies, lower latencies (Unlikely but not impossible.) and other new fabled technopolip like that.

Long term future proofing is, when computers are concerned, a bad idea financially speaking.

And for the record I hope such amounts of RAM will be used for storing stuff that actually needs the space, not storing lazily programmed and bloated software like the situation is today way too much. If Skype engineers knew what the hell they were doing their software would not idle at 100 MBs of usage.
Author:  CMGuy [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Storage doesn't matter these days, not anymore. Y do u need all that data anyways? u should just delete the unwanted stuff.


And make sure u buy stuff that is long lasting.... don't need to always buy the new unless its really needed, saves more money that way.

indeed, my processor is considered old by todays standards, bout 3 4 years, but hell, its still fast even now. Its still 3.2ghz, and it still beats sum of the hella expensive ones out there. Its one of the few things I still use on my 5 year old PC, other the the 4GBs in memory sticks, everything else changed or will be changed however.

It just comes to show you, if u are wise enough to make a good buy, its gonna pay off in the long run, more than enough to prepare for the next upgrade in the long years later on.
Author:  Bjossi [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
CMGuy wrote:
my processor is considered old by todays standards, bout 3 4 years, but hell, its still fast even now. Its still 3.2ghz, and it still beats sum of the hella expensive ones out there.


Clock frequency means little unless you are comparing processors within the same family. You have to take the architecture into account. Highly simplified examples: We have multi-cores that do n number of instructions per cycle where n is the number of cores, we have single-core superscalars that can perform up to half a dozen instructions per cycle (Which comes at the heavy cost of on-die dependency checks, hence the limitation.), and then we got mighty impressive and innovative ideas like VLIW which offloads the work of dependency checks to the compiler, making room for more circuitry, reaching over 20 instructions per cycle, then we can even have hybrids; VLIW processors that have multiple cores.

Thanks to incompatibility with instruction sets and "popularity" of specific technologies all the better stuff stays in the shadows. I dare say that VLIW is the modern day beta max. A VLIW processor clocked at <500 MHz can compete with a high-end Pentium 4, go figure.
Author:  DarkCarnivour [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Sounds like a killer machine.

Bjossi wrote:
Long term future proofing is, when computers are concerned, a bad idea financially speaking.
I agree with that. You pay 300% more for something a tiny bit better and besides most games are aimed at the average / high average machine.

Bjossi wrote:
...not storing lazily programmed and bloated software like the situation is today way too much.
Yes. Its pretty pathetic to compare that dungware to optimized magnificence of (in general) game engines.

16GB RAM might be useful for development work. No game will come close to using that, especially since they are mostly meant to run on XBoxes.
Author:  CMGuy [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Well thats the type of processor Im using.

Its a custom made Dual Core VLIW processor made from a very geeky computer geek friend of mine long time ago
(hes a genius, he pretty much made this PC for me :ugeek: ).

The Very Long Instruction Word Type. More like Very very long now :P , still going strong though. :dance:

Though im not using it right now though(just using an older yet still effective one in place), its under my monthly maintenance book right now.

In anycase, I am not a complete computer geek, so I might not know much of ur geek talk, no offence. :lol:
Author:  Bjossi [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
CMGuy wrote:
Its a custom made Dual Core VLIW processor made from a very geeky computer geek friend of mine long time ago


How long ago are we talking about? Considering even 8-bit processors are a worthy challenge to make for "geeks" I find this difficult to believe without any proof, or at least sound evidence.
Author:  CMGuy [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Well suit urself, I don't have as much knowledge of the computer ways as sum of u guys so I might not know everything about it much, but I can tell you it still goes fast even after all these years. Im tellen ya hes a genius. :lol:

Alright then moooveing on, anyways......
Don't always go for the high end stuff, unless of course you are willing to burn the banks. IMO the one that is effective yet affordable is best for the ones that need to save on cash.

You don't need to be a Complete Computer Geek when it comes to finding a decent component that balances effectiveness and cost. If your tight on cash yet wanna play the latest games, u should follow this path.
Author:  DarkCarnivour [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
CMGuy wrote:
Its a custom made Dual Core VLIW processor made from a very geeky computer geek friend of mine long time ago
Oh excellent. When buying a CPU, I always say "go the handmade route".
Author:  CMGuy [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
I guess so, but dont expect me to make my own junk, Im not that intelligent or willing enough to go that far. :lol: Ill just buy the most reasonable ones from now on unless I can get a hold of my old pal again.
Author:  Bjossi [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
I am fairly sure he was being sarcastic. The complexity of modern processors require almost molecule-accurate engineering and the architecture has become exponentially more complex by the word size. No sane person will even attempt this, you need a group of educated engineers and corporate resources. There is a reason why building 8-bit computers are popular hobbies for the über geeks.
Author:  DarkCarnivour [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Bjossi wrote:
I am fairly sure he was being sarcastic. The complexity of modern processors require almost molecule-accurate engineering and the architecture has become exponentially more complex by the word size. No sane person will even attempt this, you need a group of educated engineers and corporate resources.
Sure sure, that corporate stuff will do what is expected, but if you are looking to get a real edge, then you have to go with the handmade stuff. Some of that stuff is pretty insane!
Don't believe me, check it out: http://www.notbstech.com/handmade-cpu-sets-new-record/
Author:  CMGuy [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
lol I see what you did there. :lol:

anyway go ahead and try it, just make sure it has a return fund if it breaks in the 1st two weeks. :roll:
Author:  Black Eagle [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
There is that humor we know so well, amazing how many people miss noticeable sarcasm... :D

At any rate, having a fancy machine is great, but one should think: why am I buying the biggest and most expensive piece of electronics on the market?.. :?:

The answer simply is: I want to impress people, or I genuinely think I need this to run even a game as simple as solitaire... :)

You certainly don't need it, you need something roughly 1-3 years behind, unless its a proven concept like a standard hard drive or RAM... :ugeek:

To be fair, it doesn't if it is the most advanced at the time, what matters is when you next buy the most advanced on the market... ;)
Author:  CMGuy [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
yeah, you don't need to burn cash on teh most expensive thing, its best if u spend a reasonable amount on sumthing that not too cheap and weak, but known to be reliable and usable for the years to come, without the big price tag.

Like a 560 GTX :P Ima getting that. :dance:
Author:  Sarge [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
CMGuy wrote:
yeah, you don't need to burn cash on teh most expensive thing, its best if u spend a reasonable amount on sumthing that not too cheap and weak, but known to be reliable and usable for the years to come, without the big price tag.

Like a 560 GTX :P Ima getting that. :dance:


im getting a gtx 520, for 29.99 lol..was on sale. but i hear its slower than the gtx 440. but its stronger. so if you have like 4+ ram its all good.
Author:  Bjossi [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
A low-end 500 series only has the technology advantage over higher-end 200s and 400s, usually the brute force wins in the performance department, especially if the application you are running doesn't make use of/benefit from the new tech and optimizations of the 500 series.
Author:  CMGuy [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Yeah its a little too cheap, u need to go for the ones that are balanced in cost, effectiveness, and reliability. The GTX 560 will do that for me. Good enough to play BF3 on a decent setting, but doesn't burn my wallet. :dance:
Author:  Sarge [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Yeah, but im not looking for anything decent, i wanted something cheap, that was better than my built in chip set.
Author:  Reivaj [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
Hey Bjossi! Thanks for your tips. I've changed at last minute two things: I removed the SSD and put only 8 GB DDR3

Grizzlykiller wrote:
700W Power Supply, Enjoy your racked up Electricity Bills. ;)

- I'm scared for this, but thinking about this, the power supply isn't provided directly 700W. Its give only what the computer needs. For example, a computer with only one hard disc, CPU, RAM, graphic card (and when you playing), only needs 500W average. And if you play on 1920x1200p or higher resolutions, the consumption increases.

TurdDrive wrote:
Plus, its not a waste of money, its called future proofing your computer.

- I agree with that. When I bought my old computer, the games that came out only one year isn't working, (I've lost many good games in its time). I didn't want to repeat the same error, so I thought in a computer would last me at least three years and who doesn't need to upgrade for long time.

Black Eagle wrote:
At any rate, having a fancy machine is great, but one should think: why am I buying the biggest and most expensive piece of electronics on the market?.. :?:

The answer simply is: I want to impress people, or I genuinely think I need this to run even a game as simple as solitaire... :)

- I say the same as before: The reason is because I want my computer to last at least three years with the games of the future.

And please, I don't want to impress people with this thread. I just only wanted to see your opinions and express my happyness. I love this community (my first and only community), and I consider all of you as neighbours and good friends, I never doing something like this. :'(

Plus, the shop called me this morning, and tomorrow I'll go for get my new computer!

I'm very busy lately working, but tomorrow is Friday! Time to kick ass some bots! :D

Sorry for the english translation, Google translator sucks (luckily I correct some words with my limited learned english).
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acquiring a new computer
It's always awesome to get that new PC. Suddenly everything (games) seems fun again :D
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