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Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
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Author:  Black Eagle [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:20 am ]
Post subject:  Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
When it comes to games there is no shortage of stories, some good, but many bad... :think:

They may take you deep into a fantasy world where you feel your impact on the game is critical and that you are as much a part of the story as anything else, while others may simply put you on a figurative rail and let you watch the blandest film reel ever conceived as you fight the urge to do something more important, like watching paint dry... ;)

While some people may care about story and plot as much as they care about where the water in the basin goes. Other people may enjoy a game based mostly or entirely on it's plot or premise and not even notice the gameplay side... :)

For those that do, a good story is the difference between a game and a box of smaller boxes... :naughty:

So what are the most diabolical failures of story telling or plots you can name?, a few examples spring to mind here:

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2... Wait, it had a plot?..
Resident Evil: 4 & 5, can't vouch for the others..
UT2k4/UT3: Not sure these had a plot. But they has some lousy story stuff..

Contrary-wise what are the most glorious and original stories and plots you've seen:

Unreal 1: Duh!, not much plot, but an awesome approach to story telling...
Half Life - 1 & 2: Not bad in any regard..
Mass Effect: What it does in Space Opera and poor gameplay it makes up for in everything else..
Assassin's Creed: Not much depth, but a good ride..

Warning!: The preceding post may contain words, and traces of nuts, if you are allergic I suggest you don't read it. We are Health Code Compliant.. :D
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
Not many games have I played where the story/plot was so horrible it actually detracted from the gameplay. But Red Faction 2 did.

So I don't remember the whole premise, but basically you got like 5 team mates, I think maybe all of you are Nanite infused super solders?

Well anyways you're going along, then bam, one of the team mates turns bad, fairly early in. I figure "Ok, so they didn't do a thorough background check or something. I'll kill him, it's all good."

Well a bit later, another team mate turns bad and you have to kill him too. Now one I can understand, but two? Laaaame.

A couple team mates turned bad later, the character is still acting surprised and is not suspicious at all of remaining people on his team. I however was trying my best to kill them before it got any worse. I failed at my task.

Eventually all the people that was on your side has already died from changing sides and making a rather unmemorable boss battle. Its not like they all went at once, they did it one by one and your character acted surprised and wasn't suspicious the entire time. It was so damn bad.

This game was so bad I couldn't help but play it through to the end to see how it ended. I don't even remember anymore what happened in end, I just remember how dense your character is and apparently how idiotic the people who put these people together in a team to help them was.
Author:  Bjossi [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
Unreal 1 is not a game where I value the plot highly, the atmosphere and gameplay are the things that keep me coming back. But Prisoner 849's adventures sure are impressive when you look at the grand picture across both Unreal 1 and RtNP.
Author:  Black Eagle [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
Aye, it's not so much about the plot, but it's got a very subtle plot which works well with the game.. And most of the story is centered around the use of the Translator, very unique.. ;)
Author:  SX [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
Let's see...

Plot...


Bad Ones:

Borderlands: Great gameplay, though the plot drops like a hot rock after you get out of the Arid Badlands.

UT3: It had a story, and failed miserably. It fits more of an Unreal game than an Unreal Tournament Game.

Call of Duty: Feels like it's tacked on to a multiplayer game.

Brink: Oi... aside from having bad AI and weak sounding weapons, the plot is lame and ends up going nowhere.



Good ones:

Bioshock: Original plot with a very, very good twist.

Mass Effect 2: Vast and with multiple twists, very good.

Jak and Daxter Series: Same as mass effect 2.
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
If you're gonna throw UT3 in for bad story, you might as well throw the rest of the series in. UT3 is the only one in the series that actually attempted to tie the fights together beyond the already done tournament excuse that doesn't actually tie fights together in any way.

I thought it made a fairly convincing attempt to tie the fights together by way of war, and the extra things like level choice and extra fighters you could throw in for an arena made for a relatively fun and enjoyable UT SP experience. Level design helped sell me the story too, as they felt like they were actually part of the same world.

Of course once the SP campaign introduced you to the head Necris girl, it really went downhill. If I recall she was trying to steal the design to the invincibility powerup...? Kind of lame. But overall I felt it made a far more coherent SP than the rest of the UT games.
Author:  Bjossi [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
SX wrote:
Bioshock: Original plot with a very, very good twist.


A very predictable twist, actually.
Author:  ChaosMarine [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
Agreed on the Cod, and Unreal games. However, I've not play UT3's SP.

KotOR and 2, the stories aren't the best, but they're nowhere near the worst(in the middle, I guess).

Most games based on/centered around a movie have horrible plots, compared to the movies themselves(It's like "well, we wanna make this movie into a game, but the plot has to be in 'playable' fashion, so we have to butcher it").

Dante's Inferno, the plot was really good and extremely unique(how many other games are based on epics or poems?).
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
Sorry Xav, but I absolutely despise the UT3 SP :P It's called Unreal "Tournament". That story was just a poor, pathetic, tagged on pile of nonsense. If they were going to do a Necris vs someone, then UT was not the place to do it. The levels all very much seemed like DM/MP maps, and did not work in the context of their SP. And don't get me started on the "FLaG's"; that was just a hammer-blow to decency. The worst thing about UT3, was that they tried to add that "plot" to it.

UT99 still has the best of the lot; It worked as a Tournament, full of colorful characters fighting for whatever reasons they had.

Anyway, the UT series are hardly plot-centric games :D

Unreal 1 was awesome. Plain and simple ;)
Author:  Black Eagle [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
Totally agree that UT3's plot was lousy, I mean Respawners in a war, seriously?, and as SB says, Flags, that was downright terrible... :-\

UT99 by far had the best(even though it wasn't great either), simply because it made the most sense, it was a modern gladiator take, so most of the characters were criminals or combatants, and played for a show, UT3's 'war' scenario just doesn't work.. :?

2k4's was like a really watered down version of UT99's plot, and also had a UT3-ish spin which made it even worse... :(
Author:  DarkCarnivour [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
I don't think one can say that a game has a bad plot because it has no plot. That is like saying soccer has a bad plot. Games don't always need plots at all. UT99 doesn't have a bad plot, it has no plot. Unreal 1 is not a story or plot game, it is about you, the player, experiencing an adventure, so it and all the other games that have the same sort of 'plot' don't really count.

For some reason in UT3, unlike the other UTs, they attempted to add a plot and story and really crapped out a bad joke. The premise of UT99 was that you had a scummy tournament filled with all sorts of interesting weirdos. Each subsequent UT made the setting a shade more bland and less believable and in UT3 they tagged on a story that goes "Off-season sports stars save the world!". I much preferred the UT99 premise of "Scum fight for survival and glory in a brutal blood sport".

Borderlands is not a game about story or plot and it went just fine with their non-story, but the plot did look very stupid towards the end where they started to emphasize it more and then it culminated in that turd re-flux of and ending.

Most games have pathetic plots. Often the worst are the po-faced ones that really mean their big serious (yet ridiculous) plots.

As for good plots in game that actually have serious plots, maybe The Witcher or I might shake an unconfident finger towards GTA. I can't think of many at the moment.
Author:  SX [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
Bjossi wrote:
SX wrote:
Bioshock: Original plot with a very, very good twist.


A very predictable twist, actually.


Touche.

DarkCarnivour wrote:

Borderlands is not a game about story or plot and it went just fine with their non-story, but the plot did look very stupid towards the end where they started to emphasize it more and then it culminated in that turd re-flux of and ending.


Wasn't the plot "Go find the vault?" There was the beginning where the guardian angel tells you "go find the vault," and the end where you fight the destroyer. The only plot points were the vault key, it felt like it was spread so far and between.

Though the DLC's had more of a story driven plot, especially the secret armory of General Knoxx.

And your point is nice. *nod*
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
DarkCarnivour wrote:
I don't think one can say that a game has a bad plot because it has no plot. That is like saying soccer has a bad plot.


I could see this argument working if UT99's SP component consisted of Instant Action only. Yet that isn't the case. You have a primary antagonist (Xan, the current champion) and your goal is to defeat him. You play through the game as the same character that is progressing through the game by beating the matches. There is a story present; you're trying to win the tournament.

It is an interconnected chain of events that have some amount of meaning to the next match. This is not Instant Action with non-connected games being played.

DarkCarnivour wrote:
Games don't always need plots at all. UT99 doesn't have a bad plot, it has no plot. Unreal 1 is not a story or plot game, it is about you, the player, experiencing an adventure, so it and all the other games that have the same sort of 'plot' don't really count


You're acting out the life of Prisoner 849. The character development is mostly non-existant, as its pretty much what you make of it, but to say it doesn't have a plot/story when the logs speak of prophecies and such referring to you, when you go through a specific path to accomplish certain goals, it would be a lie. It may have a plot that you can disregard, but there is one present. Something was there to keep it coherent and not a random collection of levels.

DarkCarnivour wrote:
For some reason in UT3, unlike the other UTs, they attempted to add a plot and story and really crapped out a bad joke. The premise of UT99 was that you had a scummy tournament filled with all sorts of interesting weirdos. Each subsequent UT made the setting a shade more bland and less believable and in UT3 they tagged on a story that goes "Off-season sports stars save the world!". I much preferred the UT99 premise of "Scum fight for survival and glory in a brutal blood sport".


I don't particularly find anything terrible about the "Off-season sports stars save the world!" premise when the sport they were playing happened to be one that specifically involved killing others. Makes sense to me.

I won't argue that UT2004 and even UT3 were more bland than UT99 (shift in art direction played a big role in that), but don't give me the argument its any less beleivable in a game called Unreal Tournament. You're still killing and being killed by other gladiators without consequence, carrying way too many outrageously over sized weapons whose functionality have no base in reality than you could possibly fit on a person. None of the UT games have any particular sense of believeibility.
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
I guess we have slightly different ideas as to what a plot is / should be :) I don't agree that the UT's, Serious Sam, Quake1 or Doom(1-2) had plots; they had the barest elements needed to explain a few things, but that was really that. One can't say they are bad by any measure, simply because they didn't have a great (or any) plot. Plot just is not required to make a good game.
With the UT99 ladder "SP", it was less plot, and more a set-up that you learn at the very start; you're a fighter, beat the champion and win. It left you to that afterwards, without any more "plot" being revealed or needed. It simply set-up some elements to explain what was happening, why you were there and what you were supposed to do; I wouldn't call that a plot in my own (possibly incorrect) mind :)

In this vein, Unreal 1 is, I believe, an excellent example (similar to HL, granted) of how SP games should play out. In U1, you never left your player for a cut-scene or a dialogue window or anything. There was no hand-holding, no baby-sitting the player when times got tough. It was a proper adventure, it had some of the best atmosphere of any game. It was the players adventure, exploring, discovering bits of information (that were mostly unnecessary for any gameplay reasons) through the translator. The game never pointed to something and said "do this!". People should have learnt from U1, and followed that vein of game design and world building; a compelling world devoid of pathetic hand-holding and a cut-scene every 3 seconds, filled to the brim with crappy dialogue. It would seem that U1 is a lost sub-genre of the FPS, which focused more on a well realized world, atmosphere, and mostly, exploration and adventure.
Author:  Black Eagle [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
Unreal 1 is indeed the best example of the proper approach to single player FPSs... ;)

On the point of what a plot is, one can hardly say Unreal 1 or even UT for that matter didn't have a plot, no matter how small, it is still the only thing that bridges the gap and makes it better or worse for it, the only game without a plot would be one that makes no sense... :-\

DarkCarnivour wrote:
Borderlands is not a game about story or plot and it went just fine with their non-story

I'm afraid I can't get behind Borderlands so easily if all it's got is a few colorful weapons and characters, it didn't feel very alive to me as the plot and reasons for whatever it was you were doing sucked bad. Borderlands to me is a pretty piece of design, but not much more unless they've fixed that in the next one, however it is still a fun game, at least in multiplayer, can't see the singleplayer being very engaging.... :think:

Personally story holds more importance to me, and as such, games that lack one aren't always fun unless the gameplay is really good, and even then it's just fun, but there is so much more than just fun, where is the emotion?, where is the depth?, where is the spirit?... Games that lack these hidden things will never be as good(at least to me) as games that DO have them... :)

That's why I like Mass Effect, sure they are space opera-y, and I'm not a big fan of that genre, but the game really grows on you, and the plot and characters prevail so much that it draws you away from the small shortcomings of the gameplay, which they improved immensely in the second one, which leaves it with solid gameplay and story... :handgestures-thumbupright:
Author:  DarkCarnivour [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
@Captain Xavious: I think you're confusing confusing "plot" with "setting" and "premise". The plot is the sequence of events that make up the narrative. The setting is the description and story of the world or situation up until the point where you start.
To me, a plot needs to have a series of narrative events that are largely beyond your control for it to count as a plot. Plot is like the mechanics of the story, no atmosphere, no setting, just events.
Games don't always need plots because they have a player to make things happen.

UT99 has a background story, a setting, a premise, but doesn't have any meaningful plot. The story of the world and the tournament perfectly matches what you see when you play the game, unlike UT3 where the premise and story absolutely conflict with what you see, hear and experience when you play a match.

Perhaps 'plot' was not the right word for this thread (unless it was)? perhaps 'story' is what everyone is referring to which is a much bigger thing than plot. Plot is still a good topic as good and imaginative plots are so lacking in games.
Author:  Black Eagle [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
I was of two minds about what word to use, first I used 'Story', then thought 'Plot' would be better, but failed to accurately split the difference, since plot is as you say about more specific mechanics of a story, when I actually mean story in most of what I've written... :)

But for the sake of removing stiff topic rules, you can post about either, in future I shall phrase things better, and structure some rules so we can all be more rigidly accurate... :think:
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
DarkCarnivour wrote:
UT99 has a background story, a setting, a premise, but doesn't have any meaningful plot. The story of the world and the tournament perfectly matches what you see when you play the game, unlike UT3 where the premise and story absolutely conflict with what you see, hear and experience when you play a match.


I never said UT99 has a meaningful plot, but my point is that UT99 SP is not the same as UT99 Instant Action, despite having the same levels and characters. In SP you have to beat one round to get to another predetermined round, as opposed to IA where it really doesn't matter one way or another what you play.

The SP component uses a Tournament as a vehicle to tie them together.

Black Eagle wrote:
On the point of what a plot is, one can hardly say Unreal 1 or even UT for that matter didn't have a plot, no matter how small, it is still the only thing that bridges the gap and makes it better or worse for it, the only game without a plot would be one that makes no sense... :-\


Yeah, this is what I was saying. Instant Action lacks that most basic of plot and results in a series of unconnected events rather than being part of a certain thing.
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
I don't know; UT99 at least made sense to me. You're in a tournament fighting. That much was always very obvious. UT lacks a plot, but it doesn't need one to tie together the game. All it needs (and has) is that basic premise. It still felt like I was playing the same thing in SP and IA because the premise in both was the same :)

I will say, that a perfect game in my opinion does not need a plot/story really. It needs a premise, good theme/setting and good gameplay. I believe that the best game would be one without plot, handing control of the events to the player; so they can forge their own story in the world. The best story is one you made happen yourself, because of the decisions you made.
This works in MP games already, where you can recount the epic match you played, and how you won out against the opposing team, overcoming huge odds; how you had 10 shots left with which you had to kill the 10 remaining enemies, and how you won with a final melee swipe in a brutal close-range pit fight with the last 3 opponents. You don't get that in most SP games, because of that plot neatly laid out for you by the designers. Everyone will have the same story to tell.
Author:  Black Eagle [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
I must admit I agree that a game build around a 'Premise'/Setting and not a 'Plot' is certainly a nice approach, as long as the game still has some structural story stuff, eg: Unreal 1, Oblivion, Skyrim.. ;)

All these games let you be the instigator of events, granted Unreal 1 is much less plot based than the other two aforementioned games... :handgestures-thumbupright:

I've used the word 'Plot' in the context of general story and premise, this gives a rather inaccurate view of the points I was trying to make... :(

-Generally I believe a game should not have a Plot that gives you a film reel, ie: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2..
-A game should have a good Premise to keep the game's point and general story structure, without this a game is nothing but bare metal...
-If a game does have a plot, it should either let You tell a large part of the story, or have you break it up with your actions..
-The 'Story' around the game should be something unique and preferably full of colorful depth, eg: GTA SA/IV..

-Lastly(This is often left out completely), for a truly exceptional game, games should have Depth, Emotion, and Spirit. This refers to games that manage to get real reactions out of you, such as engendering a sense of convincing fear, concern for a character that you have grown to like, or a deep sense that you are genuinely part of something greater than yourself, and that the other characters reinforce this feeling and feel the same as you... :D

There are few games I can think of where they added the aforementioned characteristic, and only really games with a strong 'Plot' driven by your actions can hope to come close... :think:

Mass Effect seems the closest in this regard, and that's the main reason I like it, although I'm sure people will have their reasons for finding fault with the characters and story, either not real enough or too predictable, or the gameplay sucks, etc, and although these things may sometimes be true, they'll still be missing out on something good if they give it a chance and leave their mind out of it for a moment... ;)
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Plots; The Best & Worst?
I couldn't like Mass Effect because the characters were too normal. Well realized average/stereotypical characters; there was no color. Games are a canvas for the imagination, so please, use it! I'm not sure if I'm alone in this, but I can think of few (read none) characters that I ever really cared anything about. Perhaps it's because I know it's a game, made up of non-existent people; perhaps I know what the developers are trying to do, so it has no impact. Who knows.
ME didn't grab me because the chars were taken too seriously, as if you were supposed to care for them, the sci-fi was not my cup of tea, and the dialogue was too plot-centric.
GTA shall remain my go-to for best game chars until someone does better or I come across superior example ;)

I guess due to my problem of forming basically zero attachment to the characters or stories of most games, it has to come down to good mechanics, theme, premise and colorful characters. And obviously it has to be solid :)
Author:  SX [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
But what about Thane Krios? The Solipsist, Polytheistic, Dying Assassin?

SPOILERS:

Made me mad that he died in Mass Effect 3, he was the part of my final team against the Reaper in ME2
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
What of him?
Author:  Black Eagle [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
ShadowBlade wrote:
Perhaps it's because I know it's a game, made up of non-existent people; perhaps I know what the developers are trying to do, so it has no impact. Who knows.

Black Eagle wrote:
....they'll still be missing out on something good if they give it a chance and leave their mind out of it for a moment... ;)


The problem I mentioned earlier, you have to force the 'Mind' into a back seat to really enjoy certain games, ME is one such game...

Lots of the ME characters were a bit narky I agree, I only really like a few of them, but they made all the difference... ;)

-Jacob sucks
-Miranda is too cold
-Mordin is too, theatrical
-Cpt.Anderson is too typical
-The asari matriarch(forgot the name) was really boring
-Kaiden was too boring also
-Ashley sucked in the second one
-Jack is far too trashy.

Good ones..

-Joker
-Garrus
-Grunt
-Legion
-And the first krogan, forgot the name right now..

I didn't like Thane too much, he was fairly decent though, he sure had some personal issues that one... :D
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
First Krogan; Wrex?

I can't really force my mind into something I don't really like. I can force myself to watch Rugby too, but.. yeah :P
Author:  SX [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
Black Eagle wrote:
I didn't like Thane too much, he was fairly decent though, he sure had some personal issues that one... :D


But he was useful in combat, thanks to his Warp, Throw and Shredder Ammo. :D
Author:  Black Eagle [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
Well yeah, if you have to force it, it ain't right....I just meant negate thinking, and instead go with feeling...

For me the thinking mind is a secondary response, I use it whenever I want, but it ain't the driving force(Personality Types 'n all)... Makes games like ME much better, either way some will like it, others won't.. :think:

SX wrote:
But he was useful in combat, thanks to his Warp, Throw and Shredder Ammo. :D


Combat?, I never used any of those faffy biotic guys in combat, I went with the good old brute force of Grunt and Garrus... ;)
Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
I'd just like to say that I love the Mass Effect stories as well, and am currently hazardously addicted to the third one. I don't see any problems with some characters being boring/stereotypical since there are more than enough interesting ones to offset them.

Additionally, Deus Ex's story and plot are way up there on my list. JC was fairly emotionless (e.g. shouting "A BOMB." in some sort of blatant statement) so you could project whatever thoughts you had onto him. That, combined with the multiple dialogue choices and rampant conspiracies, made its story much more engaging. Same goes for Mr. Freeman in Half Life, whose story was also fun to watch fold out.

On the low end:
Red Faction: Guerrilla's story kinda sucked, and I agree with most of you that UT3's "story" would have been better as just a straight up tournament. The Call of Duty games generally have crappy ass stories, but damn if they don't make for good action movies...
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
I guess it's just me that can't get along with ME then :P I had a similar gripe with the Dragon Age (then again, most games which focus on the characters, dialogue and plot) characters and dialogue. Basically I want my characters to be colorful; do crazy, quirky things :) Of course, the characters are only a part of why I didn't like ME. Mostly it was the space-opera, sterilized sci-fi setting :(

The Witcher had an engaging story (mostly due to the setting and atmosphere), despite having similar dialogue and character issues.
Author:  DarkCarnivour [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game Stories; The Best & Worst?
Unfortunately, I haven't played Deus Ex.

Sgt. Kelly wrote:
...JC was fairly emotionless (e.g. shouting "A BOMB." in some sort of blatant statement) so you could project whatever thoughts you had onto him. That, combined with the multiple dialogue choices and rampant conspiracies, made its story much more engaging. Same goes for Mr. Freeman in Half Life, whose story was also fun to watch fold out.
I think that's an important element in playable characters, i.e. they are blankish slates that let you make of things what you will rather than trying to tell you how you how you should interpret things. Really sucks when the game slams a wall between you and your character by making them say something completely out of the 'character' you've imagined for them.

Haven't played ME, so I can't contribute anything on that.

Have played someway into Red Faction and, I agree that the story and plot is a bit empty. Certainly not the worst, mainly because it (so far at least) has stayed in the background. Luckily, the actual game part is ok, it's all about the DESTRUCTION! Can't think of any other game with such a level of schedule free structural disassembly and uncivil engineering. :)
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