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3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
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Author:  Scorpion_SK [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
TOZ-28 Combined Hunting Shotgun

This weapon is half shotgun and half rifle, it has 3 barrels (2 shotgun barrels and 1 rifle barrel), uses 20mm shotgun shells and 6,5x51 rifle rounds. Reloads like Wilson 41-DB revolver dependently on which barrel need reloading. Primary fire has long range like m290 shotgun but more damage and recoil because large 20mm caliber is used (and for gameplay balance this also has reason because the weapon has only 2 shots per reload). Primary fire shots 1 barrel or 2 barrels dependently on selected fire mode. Secondary fire is similar to Redwood 6000 rifle fire, it has high accuracy and very long fire range.

Parameters:
Ammo: 20mm shotgun shells / 6,5mm rifle rounds
Clip Size: 2 shotgun shells / 1 rifle round
Firemodes: Single Barrel Shot / Double Barrel Shot

Controls:
Primary Fire: Shotgun Fire
Secondary Fire: Rifle Fire
Special: (none)

TOZ-28 shotgun opened for reloading
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TOZ-28 shotgun
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Barrels sheme
Image

20mm shotgun shells
Image
Author:  Kien [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Hm what's the english name for these weapons? In deautch where they come from they are called drilling like in sweden.

About the weapon. This would be similar to a shotgun slug, which the developers does't seem to have much interrest in. Have just a bigger version of an existant one is really the last ideas. It's not much fun. It makes the other weapons feel too weak and in some cases creates a too powerful weapon. A shotgun stronger than the m290 is a such weapon IMO. Sure 2 shots reload but I think it's too much anyway. Adding a bullet barrel doesn't make it less powerful either.
Author:  SHAD0Wdump [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Now thats a Man's gun. 8)
Author:  Kaboodles [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
If the LeMat and Redwood are any indication, the developers aren't going to turn down an old-style weapon.

I would, however, remove the double-shot capability. I don't think these weapons were capable of firing both shotgun barrels at once.
Author:  Eat Uranium [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Certainly not, I only know of one double barrel that fires both at the same time - and only because the owner is a tightwad and won't buy a new one when they have a 'perfectly good' one...
Author:  Kien [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Uhm if the weapon could fire double shot in realityt is the last thing to care about here. Would you ever like a double-barreled in a game which couldn't fire both barrels at once?
Author:  Treadhead [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Two things. One, great sig, Uranium. Two, I love this idea. Three (Yes I know I said two...), there ARE double-barrel, break-open shotguns that kindave fire both. You simply must depress the trigger very quickly and the difference is tiny, due to the fact it uses two triggers. The main trigger, and another trigger behind that is then pushed back by the other and the finger. It wouldn't be instant, though. Think of firing a double-blast one after the otehr really fas with the secondary shot and you get a good idea of waht I mean. However, despite high power and range, I think that it should have a good reload time, not fast, not slow. Otherwise we have a similar situation as we did with the shotguns before, with one shotgun WAAAAAY to strong and the others nerfed (In this situation, it could be either this one or the M290.)
Author:  SHAD0Wdump [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
I think this could balance well.needing a reload very often.It would probably end up as one of those 'skill' weapons.
Author:  Kien [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Doesn't matter if it's balanced by damage/rof etc, it it's too powerful then it will feel to unrealistic compared to the other shotguns. You have to keep that in mind too. You can't have a super sniper rifle with super low RoF with more damage than the RPG. It would feel really wrong. The M290 is almost more than enough IMO.
Author:  Treadhead [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
So, it's unrealistic that 50 or so pellets can drop a guy at MAYBE medium range? True, it should be less effective against armor at range, but all those little tiny chunks of metal are going to rip that guy a new one. get the picture? Shotguns in this mod, while sometimes overpowered, are innacurate at worse, and somewhat badly-dispersed at best, but I'd say the shotguns are pretty realistic.
Author:  SHAD0Wdump [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
What if we load this sucker with buck shot,like the tactical shottie?
Author:  Kaboodles [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:19 am ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Treadhead wrote:
So, it's unrealistic that 50 or so pellets can drop a guy at MAYBE medium range? True, it should be less effective against armor at range, but all those little tiny chunks of metal are going to rip that guy a new one. get the picture? Shotguns in this mod, while sometimes overpowered, are innacurate at worse, and somewhat badly-dispersed at best, but I'd say the shotguns are pretty realistic.


Birdshot is pretty much only effective against birds and small game. The pellets will sting, sure. He'll bleed some, and might even blind the guy if you hit him in the face, but the pellets are not going to penetrate deep enough to hit vital organs, even at close ranges. If you want to bring down a person, use buck.

The weapons in the game really aren't particularly realistic. The M290 primary fire, at point blank, does something like 600 damage with a torso shot. A G5 rocket, by comparison, does a third of that with a direct hit. A fully-charged headshot with the Railgun does 350. The AM67, firing .50 cal pistol rounds, does more damage overall than the M925.
Author:  Grobut [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Kaboodles wrote:

The weapons in the game really aren't particularly realistic. The M290 primary fire, at point blank, does something like 600 damage with a torso shot. A G5 rocket, by comparison, does a third of that with a direct hit. A fully-charged headshot with the Railgun does 350. The AM67, firing .50 cal pistol rounds, does more damage overall than the M925.


It doesen't really matter what numbers you put in there, the M290 could do a million damage at point blank, all the player see's on his screen is the enemy dies (and gibs, obviously) when he fires both barrels at him point blank.

What matters is how the weapon handles ingame, and with the M290, i often dont get a kill unless i use both barrels unless i am very clouse indeed, even useing both barrels at medium distances sometimes wont do it, because it spreads a lot, and most of your hits will be limb hits, not torso or head, the only thing that really unbalances that weapon is its outrageous mag cap of 10 shells, 6 would have been plenty.


I'd love a Toz-28 myself, give it about equal power to the M290, but less spread and a bit more max range and it'll do the job nicely, the rifle round should probably be a headshot affair, with 2 hits to Torso to kill (maybe a random chance of a 1 hit kill), 3 to limbs, that would work.


Ohh, and BTW, the whole 2 trigger double barrel thing, it depends on the gun, older 2 trigger shotguns could fire both barrels easy, but some later models they have tried to disable this "feature" for legal reasons (think import laws of various countries), and ofcourse, some only have 1 trigger with a double pull mechanism thease days, so its not so cut and dry, it depends on the age of the gun, and ofcourse, if the owner has made any modifications to it of questionable legality.. but for BW implimentation, there's no reason why they could not be made to fire both barrels.
Author:  Kaboodles [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
That wasn't really my point there. My point was that the weapons and their damage values aren't particularly realistic or consistent. A point-blank with the M290 is literally unsurvivable, regardless of how much armor you've piled on yourself. It was even banned from my server at some point pre-2.1, since it was so much more powerful than the other shotguns.


I suggested single-shot only because I think the M290's primary fire ought to be the upper-limit to shotgun power. If each individual shot is more powerful than the M763 or M290's single, you'll break that upper limit.
Author:  Kien [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Interresting. Mr Kaboodlus could you tell how much damage the other shotties does? :}
Author:  SX [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
So it's a Rifle and a Break Open Shotgun.

... I'm Confused %-6
Author:  Kaboodles [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
SX wrote:
So it's a Rifle and a Break Open Shotgun.

... I'm Confused %-6


It's a gun with 2 shotgun barrels and 1 rifle barrel. What's not to get?

Kien wrote:
Interresting. Mr Kaboodlus could you tell how much damage the other shotties does? :}



The M763 and M290 damage stats (per pellet) as follows:

Torso: 15 to 35
Head: 20 to 50
Limb: 2 to 10

The M763 primary and M290 alt-fire both fire 12 pellets, with the M763 having a significantly tighter spread. The M290 primary fires 24, with a rather wide spread.



The MRT6 is does slightly more limb damage with the primary fire (3 to 10) at 24 pellets with a massive spread. The alt-fire does even more damage per pellet (12 pellets), strangely enough, at

Torso: 20 to 35
Head: 30 to 50
Limb: 5 to 10



The MRS138 damage per pellet is even higher:

Torso: 22 to 38
Head: 30 to 55
Limb: 5 to 15

However, it only fires 10 pellets, so its damage-per-pellet advantage over the M763 is pretty much nullified. Indeed, if you average out the numbers and multiply them by their respective pellet counts, the MRS138 only edges out the M763 in head and limb shots by a few damage points. Disappointing.


It's pretty obvious that the devs misinterpreted the meaning of a shotgun's gauge number. Gauge indicates the number of identical lead spheres of the shotgun's bore diameter you can form out of a pound of lead. And shotguns definitely don't fire a pound of lead as the death messages imply ("X blasted a pound of lead into Y with the M763"/"X blasted two pounds of lead into Y with the M290"). Also consider the fact that the 12-gauge guns fire 12 pellets, and the 10-gauge fires 10. The devs really goofed up on that.
Author:  Kien [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Holy shittus! That's quite some damage the can actually do. (O,o)
Author:  Dark_Watcher [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
poor X.

http://www.runestorm.za.net/pl/forum/fo ... .php?19516
Author:  Grobut [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Kien wrote:
Holy shittus! That's quite some damage the can actually do. (O,o)


Yeah, and its too much, since you can really mess up vehicals at clouse range with the M290, and that just shoulden't be..

The shotguns could be coded smarter, by making them work more like real shotguns, in reallity shotties don't spread like this, it is way overdone, what makes shotties a poor choice for long range engagements is not that they are so inaccurate they can't hit anything 10 meters away, its that the pellets decellerate quite rapidly, and dont cause a whole lot of damage at range.

This can be coded, infact it allready is, just not enough, if you give them a tighter spread, a realistic amount of pellets, but lower the damage of individual pellets and crank up the rangeatten= variable, you could make them behave much more realistic, and they woulden't need to be so massively overpowered to score kills at clouse to medium ranges, but we would have to actually aim the things, but you have to IRL aswell.
Author:  Kien [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Grobut wrote:
Kien wrote:
Holy shittus! That's quite some damage the can actually do. (O,o)


Yeah, and its too much, since you can really mess up vehicals at clouse range with the M290, and that just shoulden't be..

The shotguns could be coded smarter, by making them work more like real shotguns, in reallity shotties don't spread like this, it is way overdone, what makes shotties a poor choice for long range engagements is not that they are so inaccurate they can't hit anything 10 meters away, its that the pellets decellerate quite rapidly, and dont cause a whole lot of damage at range.

This can be coded, infact it allready is, just not enough, if you give them a tighter spread, a realistic amount of pellets, but lower the damage of individual pellets and crank up the rangeatten= variable, you could make them behave much more realistic, and they woulden't need to be so massively overpowered to score kills at clouse to medium ranges, but we would have to actually aim the things, but you have to IRL aswell.


Well said brother! :D I always wanted to be like this in games. Sure the purpose of shotguns in games are to be close range-only 1 shot kill weapons It's nice balance wise but I find it too unrealistic. I would prefer to have them more similar to real life shotguns. :P

I feel that I will get alot of hate from others now.
Author:  siavash1989 [ Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:19 am ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
i like this idea. in fact, i really, really like this idea, but in a different way....

how about a 3 barrel shotgun? its like a normal shotun, but it has 3 barrels, and maybe the 3rd barrel can fire slugs as alt-fire? iono. regardless, a gun with 3 barrels is, for the lack of a better word, BAD ASS.
Author:  Eat Uranium [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
For once Kien, you have spoken some sense, that is how shotguns should work, not like getting 4 million popguns and giving them to 4 million blind people
Author:  Kien [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Eat Uranium wrote:
For once Kien, you have spoken some sense, that is how shotguns should work, not like getting 4 million popguns and giving them to 4 million blind people




For once?

(o,o)
(), ,)
¯¯¯¯¯¯
Author:  Sargeant Smash [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
An American marine (maybe army) downed a suicide bomber at 100 yards with his shotgun, he was using some sort of buckshot, killed the terrorist dead, dropped him.

I like the idea of this shifle (my own word for shotgun/rifle) 12 gauge buckshot in the shotgun barrels and 6.5x55 for the rifle is what i think it should be.
Author:  Fat Zombie [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Kaboodles wrote:
Treadhead wrote:
So, it's unrealistic that 50 or so pellets can drop a guy at MAYBE medium range? True, it should be less effective against armor at range, but all those little tiny chunks of metal are going to rip that guy a new one. get the picture? Shotguns in this mod, while sometimes overpowered, are innacurate at worse, and somewhat badly-dispersed at best, but I'd say the shotguns are pretty realistic.


Birdshot is pretty much only effective against birds and small game. The pellets will sting, sure. He'll bleed some, and might even blind the guy if you hit him in the face, but the pellets are not going to penetrate deep enough to hit vital organs, even at close ranges. If you want to bring down a person, use buck.

The weapons in the game really aren't particularly realistic. The M290 primary fire, at point blank, does something like 600 damage with a torso shot. A G5 rocket, by comparison, does a third of that with a direct hit. A fully-charged headshot with the Railgun does 350. The AM67, firing .50 cal pistol rounds, does more damage overall than the M925.





Technically, apparently buckshot and so can kill without even penetrating the skin; impact of so much buckshot can send impact waves through the flesh and destroy nerves, organs etc. So you wouldn't need to penetrate to kill.

(source: New Scientist)
Author:  Kaboodles [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Fat Zombie wrote:
Kaboodles wrote:
Treadhead wrote:
So, it's unrealistic that 50 or so pellets can drop a guy at MAYBE medium range? True, it should be less effective against armor at range, but all those little tiny chunks of metal are going to rip that guy a new one. get the picture? Shotguns in this mod, while sometimes overpowered, are innacurate at worse, and somewhat badly-dispersed at best, but I'd say the shotguns are pretty realistic.


Birdshot is pretty much only effective against birds and small game. The pellets will sting, sure. He'll bleed some, and might even blind the guy if you hit him in the face, but the pellets are not going to penetrate deep enough to hit vital organs, even at close ranges. If you want to bring down a person, use buck.

The weapons in the game really aren't particularly realistic. The M290 primary fire, at point blank, does something like 600 damage with a torso shot. A G5 rocket, by comparison, does a third of that with a direct hit. A fully-charged headshot with the Railgun does 350. The AM67, firing .50 cal pistol rounds, does more damage overall than the M925.





Technically, apparently buckshot and so can kill without even penetrating the skin; impact of so much buckshot can send impact waves through the flesh and destroy nerves, organs etc. So you wouldn't need to penetrate to kill.

(source: New Scientist)



Come on now, that's not providing a source. You gotta link us to the actual article. :P

That said, what does that prove? I was talking about birdshot being too weak to penetrate deeply, not buckshot. Would birdshot send those same "impact waves" to mess someone up inside?
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Buckshot provides a much bigger punch compared to bird shot, but bird shot could affect a larger area. Hard to say really, but I'm quite certain even a lighter grade armour could negate the shock waves from bird shot to make it relatively harmless.

What FatZombie is referring to is Blunt Force Trauma (Google it), a danger all soft armours risk, though a simple sheet of metal (trauma plate) reduces the blunt force trauma significantly, though I still think soft armour could disperse the impact of bird shot quite effectively.
Author:  Kaboodles [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
I really wouldn't rely on blunt force trauma bringing down an angry, stab-happy alien and keeping him down.
Author:  Grobut [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  3-Barrel Combined Hunting Shotgun
Fat Zombie wrote:
Technically, apparently buckshot and so can kill without even penetrating the skin; impact of so much buckshot can send impact waves through the flesh and destroy nerves, organs etc. So you wouldn't need to penetrate to kill.


Thats a myth, if it where true the guy holding the shotgun would also die from the recoil.

Its physics 101, for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction, and thus, the force allied to the target will allways be the same (or less due to wind resistance and the force of gravity) as the force you felt from the gun's own recoil, its why in real life a .357 wont send bodies flying across the room like in movies, it just doesen't happen, not unless the guy holding the gun allso flew just as far in the opposite direction.

The force applied by a shotgun blast is no more than getting hit by a baseball (tossed, not hit by a bat), did you ever see a batter die from "internal shockwaves" from getting hit by a baseball? no, and you wont with a shotgun either.

There are "shockwaves" generated every time we face blunt force trauma of any kind, but our body is designed to withstand it (within reason), our internal organs are elastic to prevent such damage beeing a problem, and getting hit by a bullet or a load of birdshot/buckshot generates no more force than the recoil of the gun fiering it, it wont kill you, not unless the guy fiering the gun also died (and MAN that would be one huge gun if it could do that! hand held Howitzer!).


That said, Birdshot can be plenty lethal, just not at the same ranges as Buckshot, Birdshot decellerates very rapidly, but as it leaves the barrel, it has about the same velocity and mass as a load of Buckshot, and at point blank range they will create allmost identical wounds, get further away from the target though, and the Birdshot will become ineffective much faster than the Buck, but it's still lethal to a human within a short range, about 10 meters or so i'd say, and would still create very serious wounds up to about 15 or 20 meters or so, probably not emediately lethal, but if you dont get to a hospital, bleeding out or dying from nasty infections are all possible.

Obviously, if you are going to hunt humans, you'll want to load some Buck, but Birdshot is not a toy either.
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