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DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 7)
http://www.runestorm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=75203		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Herr General [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 7)
This is a small one on one map I've been working on for a while now. It's set in an alpine area, in a clearing with pine trees. If people like this map enough I'll make a winter and a night version.

Changes from version V6:
*Added an antiportal in the loop area.
*Changed the sky a little bit.
*Removed a couple background tree meshes since they were almost invisible anyway.
*Changed the terrain a little bit (added a new layer, changed some of the deco layers).
*Added an Ion Painter on top of one of the cliffs.
*Bot pathing!
*Updated the cubemap in the water to better match the map.

Screenshots:
Image
Image
Image

Download:
http://www.filefront.com/14364539/MountainGlenBeta7.zip
Author:  Sergeant Kelly [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
Cool, a new map!

I'll test this out now that I'm back from my Italian trip.
Author:  Sergeant Kelly [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
First impressions:

It's a nice open map, perfect for 1on1's. Though I am getting some performance issues, which is strange. Make sure there are no BSP leaks or broken static meshes.

Ammo and guns blend in with the terrain in Ballisitic, which makes it unique in that you really have to find the guns on the ground. :)
Author:  Herr General [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
I was noticing some performance problems too. And even in regular UT2004 I changed the meshes of the pickup bases to better camouflage them.

I don't think it's a BSP error, since the vast majority of the map is static meshes and terrain. There's about 3 CSG operations in the entire map. I may take out a few of the background tree meshes to see if that helps and possibly add an antiportal in the loop area too. I'll also lower the amount of deco layers, since that's also new in this version. :)
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
Performance issues? Really? I didn't notice any, but I am noticing a lot of unfriendly tree collisions. Like when I try to crawl under some, and get stuck, or getting stuck between a rock and a hard... um... tree. Thats the only real problems I have seen so far, and a bot just tanding in an open area near the outer edge of the playable arena; theres like a small clearing somewhere and he was just standing there. Was weird.

Other than that, a very great looking map and it seems like it'd be a lot of fun too. Didn't play it a whole lot yet though, but I loved it so far, lots of chances to hide in or around trees and stuff. Much fun.
Author:  Herr General [ Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
The reason I have the tree collisions is that I added an extra leaves mesh to what's already there and since everything else has no collision already the lighting was really weird. I'll try and turn off collision and see if there's any lighting problems.

The bot was standing there since I haven't put bot pathing in yet. (Up to this version, the map was small enough I didn't need it.)
Author:  Azarael [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
To avoid lighting issues due to the addition of the new meshes, set bShadowCast to false in Display. This works well for all cases where meshes appear to have random dark patches due to them being affected by shadow, either their own (happens a lot with custom meshes) or that of another mesh.
Author:  Herr General [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
It wasn't that, it was actually since collision was turned off the meshes had no shadows on them. They weren't unlit, it just looked strange.

So far, this is the changelist for my next version:
*Added an antiportal in the loop area.
*Changed the sky a little bit.
*Removed a couple background tree meshes since they were almost invisible anyway.
*Changed the terrain a little bit (added a new layer, removed some of the deco layers).
*Added an Ion Painter on top of one of the cliffs.
*Bot pathing!
*Updated the cubemap in the water to better match the map.

Anything else anyone can think to add?
Author:  OCAdam [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
I'd say to possibly add a second deco layer for the grass and make that layer much more lush, but also set so that it's only visible if you are running higher world detail.
Author:  Herr General [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
I removed some of the stuff in a deco layer for performance reasons. I'll try doing as much optimization as possible and see if I can do that.
Author:  OCAdam [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
Well what I'm saying is that you can have several deco layers, but each one more detailed than the last. The more detailed ones would then be setup so you see more of the layers depending on how the mapper (you in this case) setup the world detail level required to see each layer of detail.

Like with my map, DM-FireYard, the grass is unable to be seen unless you have the world detail set to high. Otherwise, you only see the texture below the grass, never the grass deco layer.
Author:  Herr General [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 6)
I did that and doubled the amount of grass on the map. It didn't seem to have much of a performance impact, and it still looks good. :good:
Author:  Herr General [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 7)
First post updated with new version.
Author:  TurdDrive [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 7)
Put some anitportals around to help performance.
Author:  Herr General [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 7)
Please read the changelog in the first post.

And it's a small open outdoor map. There's not much reason for antiportals. :|
Author:  TurdDrive [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 7)
I know its small but you could hide many of them in the tree's any optimisation is good.
Author:  Herr General [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 7)
The trees are way too small to bother putting antiportals. It would slow it down more since the engine has to figure what is occluded and with antiportals that would be about 25 UU wide it wouldn't be worth it.
Author:  OCAdam [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DM-1on1-MountainGlen (version 7)
Herr General wrote:
The trees are way too small to bother putting antiportals. It would slow it down more since the engine has to figure what is occluded and with antiportals that would be about 25 UU wide it wouldn't be worth it.


Quoted for truth, from observation and others' tests.

Having antiportals only speeds stuff up if you are occluding a good amount of other things. If only one or two things get occluded, it's useless. In the case of small trees with the antiportals in them, you will actually occlude basically nothing since you must have the FULL object hidden behind the antiportal for it to not be rendered by the Unreal Engine.
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