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Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
http://www.runestorm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=76964		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Yokelassence3 [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
Hello Herr General and Sgt Kelly, I have a proposition for you both that involves the mods you two have made. I want to know if its something that may be feasible since it doesn't involve starting anything new or really ambitious, just some level of agreement

Sgt Kelly has provided us with an excellent selection of rifles but some of which are short on firemodes

Herr General has provided us with an excellent selection of target painters but none of which fire bullets.

So I came across the idea of combining the two: Take Sgt Kelly's rifles and add Herr generals target painters to them as alternate fire modes. The result will be Tactical Rifles capable of bringing down foes with bullets AND airstrikes.

Now I chose Sgt Kelly's weapons in particular because the pre-beta prototype rifles are excellent candidates for this. The MARS, G33, G60, VSK and AK420 are simple bullet shooters that do not really have a definitive secondary fire already, plus they fit the concept.

Imagine this:(Simple implementation)

MARS:
primary: 5.56 rounds
Secondary: paint target for cluster bomb (only when charge bar is full)
Tertiary: aiming laser

As you can see we simply moved the primary fire of one of Herr Generals airstrikes into a firemode slot and added a charge bar, nothing special. Whether to use primary, secondary or tertiary is really up to you.

The airstrike only works if the charge bar is full. This charge bar is empty by default but slowly builds up by itself over the course of 1 minute. When you call your airstrike, the charge bar drops down to 0 and you must wait another 60 seconds before you can use it again.

To get the rest of Herr Generals airstrikes involved, we could take advantage of the camo system:

MARS green camo version :
primary: enhanced 5.56 rounds
Secondary: paint target for chemical cluster bomb (only when charge bar is full)
Tertiary: aiming laser

MARS (red?) camo version :
primary: incendiary rounds
Secondary: paint target for incendiary cluster bomb (only when charge bar is full)
Tertiary: aiming laser

Of course that's just one way of doing it, here's another that lets a single gun handle multiple airstrikes based on how much adrenaline you have:

G33:
primary: 5.56 rounds
Secondary @ 30 adrenaline: paint target for JDAM
Secondary @ 70 adrenaline: paint target for bunker buster
Secondary @ 100 adrenaline: paint target for MOAB
Tertiary: aiming laser

So rather than making multiple skins and requiring blind luck to get certain airstrikes, you can control what airstrike to call by building up adrenaline, sort of like how artifacts worked in UT2004 RPG

Then there's more complicated ideas like letting players select an airstrike through a menu and requiring a separate ammo type to use them. For ultra powerful airstrikes like the nuke you may need a more complex system like that but I don't want to overwhelm Sgt Kelly here. I think for starters only the most balanced airstrikes should be included...well worry about the rest later.

What do you guys think? Could this work? It all depends if you are okay with combining mods and if you personally feel it is feasible. It's just an idea
Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
Hmm, interesting ideas...

Under barrel target painters would definitely be a unique addition. We'll have to wait until V10 gets underway before drafting anything up, though.
Author:  raziel [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
This gets my approval =D

Mal

P.S not that that means anything...
Author:  Azarael [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
An acept acceptable idea provided that the airstrike is has a global cooldown, i.e. multiple airstriking weapons donut do not have independent strike timers.

Azarael

P.S. I wish there was a way I could fix those mistakes I made in my post above.
Author:  Herr General [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
I approve! Frankly, this would be quite epic. And we're kinda running out of unique firemodes- but I never thought about combining Sgt. Kelly's pack and my airstrikes.

However, there would be MAJOR balance necessary. Most of my bombs are far too powerful to play with, and the big bombs (MOAB, daisy cutter, nuke, etc.) would have to be cut out altogether.

I like the "theme" you seem to be thinking of with the weapons- e.g. the MARS has cluster munitions (but different varieties) . For something such as the G33, perhaps keep to another theme, such as single bombs. At 50 adrenaline, just have a single HE bomb. at 75, bunker buster, and at 100 have napalm or a fuel-air explosive.

For the (insert weapon here) it could be controllable missiles that are dropped by a plane- kinda like Bad Company 1. at 50, a single small missile (similar to the JDAM). At 75, a missile with cluster warhead( like the JSOW). and at 100, something with a nice large warhead- a Tomahawk cruise missile, perhaps?

If balanced and implemented correctly, this could be EPIC.
Author:  Turbo K [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
Herr Gerneral, where can I download your airstrike mutators?
Author:  Herr General [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20046747/Airstrikes_zip

You need the summon codes for this.

Airstrikes.BLU82PainterPickup
Airstrikes.BLU96PainterPickup
Airstrikes.CBU72PainterPickup
Airstrikes.CBU58PainterPickup
Airstrikes.CBU100PainterPickup
Airstrikes.CBU30PainterPickup
Airstrikes.GBU43PainterPickup
Airstrikes.GBU57PainterPickup
Airstrikes.GBU38PainterPickup
Airstrikes.MK77PainterPickup
Airstrikes.MC1PainterPickup
Airstrikes.X93PainterPickup (doesn't always work)
Airstrikes.LUU4PainterPickup
Airstrikes.CarpetPainterPickup
Airstrikes.NapalmPainterPickup
Airstrikes.JSOWPainterPickup
Airstrikes.MLRSPainterPickup
Airstrikes.W54PainterPickup
Author:  Yokelassence3 [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
Good to hear you guys are keen on this. I believe it could introduce some new gameplay. But of course it would only be for V10 since it involves the prototypes and V9 has its work cut out for it.

I have considered balance carefully because I don't want the rifles to be Super Weapons.

1 minute is about the time it takes for a redeemer to re-spawn anyway but we can bump that to 1:30 if need be to account for the time you usually take to pick up the weapon and fight other people for it, I'm not sure why they couldn't be independently timed, you may need to explain that one to me Azarael.

Furthermore it only works in outdoor maps. No one is going to jump around a corner and launch a cluster bomb directly at your face

Lastly we will only use the 'small' airstrikes. So the nuke, the MOAB, the daisy cutter and the carpet bombs would either be secluded to a rifle that's already Super (like the AIMS20) or left as a separate Super Weapon. I find the other airstrikes easy to dodge.

The airstrikes are more balanced as Super Weapons compared to the Redeemer IMO. You cant use them in most maps, you get a warning, you can see it coming and you have plenty of time to get out of the way. The UT2004 target painter was laughably avoidable, I can set up a DM match with 10 bots with infinite-ammo target painters on a small outdoor map AND SURVIVE! So yea...

Anyway, I was thinking we could split up the airstrikes like this:

MARS2:
CBU-72 (default)
CBU-30 chem (uncommon/green camo)
CBU-58 incen (rare/Red camo)
CBU-100 (very rare/urban camo)

G33:
GBU JDAM (default)
Chem bomb (uncommon/green camo)
Incen bomb (rare/Red camo)
GBU MOP (very rare/urban camo)

G60:
AGM JSOW (default)
Carpet bomb (rare/desert camo)
Incen carpet bomb (very rare/red camo)

SRAC:
None (default)
LUU4 Illumination flare (uncommon/police theme)
AIM AGM (rare/military theme)
Tactical nuke (rarest/gold) <-- should also return a message saying "kiss your ass goodbye" haha, okay I'm just joking here. This should be the MOAB or the Daisy Cutter instead

Not sure:
Daisy cutter
Fuel bomb
MOAB
Orbital weapon
Mine drop
Missile barrage

(I decided to include the SRAC because 'tactical assault cannon' sounded cooler than 'tactical assault rifle' but only for very specific skins, I decided the AK and the VSK did not really fit the tactical assault rifle theme and were better off with their own secondary abilities, the AIMS20 is good enough as it is without airstrike abilities.)
Author:  Sarge [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
me liky lots! =D
Author:  TheOrlyFactor [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
I'd love to see this implemented in V10. :D

In regards to "small" vs. "large" airstrikes, an idea occurred to me: while I do see where you're coming from on the "small" airstrikes and their use/implementation, why not use the "large" airstrikes on gametypes with more ground to cover like VCTF and ONS only? Also, the respawn time could be double that or the "small" airstrikes (the ones that, in your example, respawn after 1:30) to keep from spamming the "large" airstrikes. I know on VCTF and ONS gametypes there are weapons I hardly ever use (grenade launcher, mine launcher, and the AvRIL to name a few) and I could see the "large" airstrike weapons replacing those.

Granted, I don't know jack about coding. This is just me thinking off the top of my head, that and I should be in bed right now. I'm probably rambling and making no sense. :p

But yeah, I like the idea of this being implemented in V10. (:
Author:  Vani [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
I like the idea.
But the weapons would get kinda useless in non-onslaught modes...
Author:  Yokelassence3 [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
In non-onslaught gametypes the weapons would still be useful. I know that because the Prototype rifles are already useful without airstrikes. (also, there are plenty of outdoor DM maps where airstrikes can be used, but you need to download them)

The larger airstrikes shouldn't become freely available IMO, not even after a long cool-down period. C&C gave you free nukes every minute or so and I hated that gameplay.

They need a different system where they are more earned. A separate resource that the player must collect comes to mind, like how the staves require you to collect 10 souls in order to unlock their stronger abilities.

There is of course the adrenaline systems which can do this. In the Airpower mod, one of the vehicles uses something similar where you can spend 100 adrenaline to delivery a very huge payload not unlike the MOAB and it worked

Another idea is that the target painters require more time to paint the target and makes the painter more visible. If you fail to fire at the end of a very bright red beam that's been shining on your base for 15 seconds you deserve to get fuel bombed.

The nuke however needs its own thing, I am not sure what that could be. It is pretty much a game-finisher and sits on an entirely different level from all the others
Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
The nuke will not be required since that thing is already going to be working its way into V10. ;) Right now I'm thinking deployable suitcase nuke with a long timer, maybe with a visible beacon and some way to defuse it.
Author:  Herr General [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
For the MARS I would say switch the CBU-72 around with the CBU-100. The CBU-100 is a regular, standard cluster bomb, while the CBU-72 is the one with three big fuel-air bombs in it. It makes more sense to have the big powerful one the most rare.

The AGM/AIM doesn't work at the moment, so that could maybe be the controllable missile idea?

If this could be implemented well... it would be pretty awesome.
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
Sgt. Kelly wrote:
maybe with a visible beacon and some way to defuse it.


by "defusing" do u mean just shooting the hell outta it ;D
Author:  Blade sword [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
Or pressing the use button during a few seconds, this will force people to defend their beacon, I think
Author:  Sarge [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
so i tried ouy sirstrikes today :D love it, andi have an idea on what to do with it, sides the one thats already on here, killstreaks, make a mut that you can config 10 different killstreak rewards. have them be airstrikes, or anything at that matter ammo guns vehs. and i also just came up with one, but its not all that good lol, i was thinking maybe make a cid, (things that shoot missels, and has a gunner) make the gunners a airstrike, that way you can just swap out the vehs or have it randomly swap thru the same veh but different airstrikes. its just an i dea i had :) tell me what u think
Author:  Herr General [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
I can't code that. Sorry.
Author:  Sarge [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
but what if we found someone who could?
Author:  Herr General [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
If we could, the selectable airstrikes would be epic. But I have no idea how to.
Author:  Blade sword [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
make a gun with a painter as alt fire and use special to select airstrikes
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
This and sergeant kellys mod is just a win both ways imagine getting a aims 20 and finding the enemy's base and NUKING IT ;D

i must admit if this becomes a reality it will change the face of bw ;D

Another cool idea for a airstrike would be a sonic strike where two bombers fly past each other creating a sonic boom that damages and destroys aircraft. that would be really good for onslaught

this would ALSO give a chance for a airstrike to be aborted such as a bomber going by carrying a nuke and you can sonic boom it out of the sky ;D

and when the plane hits the ground the nuke goes off.
Author:  Sarge [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
i didnt think the nuke was carried by a bomber? i thought it was a ICBM. but good idea :), and ill poke around epic forums see if anyone can help us with my idea.
Author:  Yokelassence3 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
I thought the nuke was an ICMB too. You don't see a bomber, just a long range missile falling out of the sky.

In that regard its not the same as Sgt Kelly's tactical nuke. One is for demolishing tanks, the other is for demolishing entire bases

BTW I like the suitcase nuke idea, a deployable nuke that you need to plant, then defend sounds more balanced than a rocket launcher. (But keep the nuclear LAW, I love nuke jumping! Weeeeee!)
Author:  Blade sword [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
C&C renegade uses beacons for its super weapons, the orbital ion cannon and the nuclear strike.
I think we can make different kind of weapons in that regard.
Author:  TurdDrive [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
The summoning codes are not working for me :(
Author:  Sarge [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
if we can find a coder for kill streaks, we could make it so you get a smoke nade for the airstrikes
Author:  Herr General [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
The nuke is a missile, but not an ICBM. Nobody would waste an ICBM on a 1 kiloton warhead. ;)

TurdDrive, make sure you are not using Loadout or something else that removes rogue weapon pickups.

Anyway, smoke grenades is not the best idea- many of the airstrikes would not allow you to get out of the damage radius in time. That's why target painters were such a good fit.
Author:  Sarge [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
i guess smoke nades would suck, exclueding the nuke, becuase even with the painter i still dont get out fast enought xD. and i use airstrikes in my loadout, it doesnt work for him?
but ill get back to prowling for coders lol....
Author:  TheOrlyFactor [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Idea for both Airstrikes and BWRecolors3
Sgt. Kelly wrote:
The nuke will not be required since that thing is already going to be working its way into V10. ;) Right now I'm thinking deployable suitcase nuke with a long timer, maybe with a visible beacon and some way to defuse it.


That's something I wanted to ask you about: is the nuke for V10 similar to the Redeemer, or does it have a bigger punch? Something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu-AQYVn ... re=related

Or even this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFLAp__0F8U

Or bigger than the examples provided?
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