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Itellectual Property Rights and other stuff.
http://www.runestorm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=77051		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Itellectual Property Rights and other stuff.
All i can say is, as long as he dosnt bring the stupid rants to our community just sit back and laugh.
Author:  lepmuR [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Grizzlykiller wrote:
All i can say is, as long as he dosnt bring the stupid rants to our community just sit back and laugh.

All i can say is, that ♥♥♥♥♥ sucks. He made far the best balancing pack out there and hosted a well administrated server for the EU folks. Just one Mutator to make BW and the community stuff competitve.

Sad, that it turned out like this, for all.
Author:  TurdDrive [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Edit: What has he been banned for then?
Author:  Man_Slayer [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
TurdDrive wrote:
Edit: What has he been banned for then?


I second this man (wut happened?)
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
i think this is the 3rd banning on this site.

He must have Abused Sgt kelly on P.M or something, but if he has been banned it must have been pretty serious.
Author:  Man_Slayer [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
ahh k
Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
He hasn't actually been banned, we put him on Moderated Mode (where his posts require approval) after he went berserk in several forum threads and openly attacked staff and forum members in the same style you see him doing on ModDB. (We had to do a lot of cleanup, which is why you guys don't get to see all his garbage.)

He angrily stormed off the forums after we didn't turn the forum into a dictatorship for him. It's a shame though, I was actually trying to keep him from getting the hammer before he lost his marbles and assaulted the administration.
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Aye, All because he wanted to start silly arguements about who's mod is better, to be honest they both have there good sides, but he really didnt need to start trouble about it.

If he reads this he needs to learn that really, people make work for other people and not to be in your face about things, if you want o be aknowlegded then look at your own topic and see the people who like your mod, the reason this topic has 100 pages and is liked by all the community is because sgt kelly has worked on this for nearly 3 years!

and that work has paied off by him being liked by the community, if you didnt start trouble you would have had the same thing but you've just dug your own grave so to speak because people are going to know that your jealous of sgt kelly and there not going to like you for it.
Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Well, after sending out a cease and desist letter, we have found out that Azarael has decided to steal our mod content to continue producing his balance pack. Xavious and I have both relinquished his privilege to use our intellectual property, which he has responded to with "make me".
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Wow, why did he go all psycho?

He was fine then he just snapped and started on everyone, im afraid the poor man lost his mind and started Flaming the community, i guess he must have blown an anger Fuse??

So is he gone for good or just temporarily suspended?
Author:  Bjossi [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
If you saw half the shit we had to deal with behind the scenes you would know already that he is not coming back ever again (invited).
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Hmm. yep i'd say he lost it.

So he got jealous of sgt kelly's mod and thought the best plan of action was to flame and spam on the forums??
Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Haha, who knows? Maybe he did. ;)
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Do u think he got taken away by men in white coats? ;D

He should have just had a kit kat then this wouldnt have happened ;D
Author:  Yokelassence3 [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Okay, so this is what I got so far...I hope I didn't misunderstand anything

Azarael was happily modding away in his own balance pack. Until he decided he decided that Kelly's mod was a threat unto his own (As if people would appreciate his mod less if they were other mods available). His logic may vary, but evidently Azarael's goal was balanced, smooth and stable online play while Kellys goal was just more kickass BW guns. Azarael took exception to Kellys mod for not taking Azaraels balance changes into consideration

I'm guessing he started making demands regarding what Kellys mod should be according to his concept of balance, thus leading to a disagreement because the balance of Kellys mod is Kellys responsibility

Being the kind of person that [thinks he] must be right and everyone else is wrong, he accuses Kelly of modding malpractice. Other people (the whole forum) rushed to Kellys defense and assured Azarael that other 3rd party mods are not his concern, at this point Azarael went postal and began accusing the entire forum for various unrelated things. The moderators were forced to take affirmative action.

Feeling burnt by moderation, he now wants nothing to do with this forum and now prefers to brood about it on other forums.

Is that how it went?
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Everything but the bottom bit he didnt care about moderation because he just spammed and flamed on the forums which the moderators had to delete that probably includes some very hurtful letters and P.M's

So he just went postal and insulted the entire forum.

Apart from that, thats exactly what happened im afraid.
Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
No, that is not what happened at all. I'll post more in detail later.
Author:  Yokelassence3 [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
I'm getting mixed reports :think: But I'll wait until a new thread pops up with your (or any moderators) account of what happened

In the meantime, lets get back on topic
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
True cant wait for the finished pack ;D

i'll plasmafy someones head off with the plas edge ;D
Author:  Sgt. Kelly [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
For those of you interested in the gritty details, I'll post them before we get this train back on track.

You can rest assured that whatever the other moderators and I say is the truth. Long post inbound.

======================

His breakdown has nothing to do with mod competition at all. I brought him onto my team as a valuable balance tester, and actually asked him many times if he'd be willing to make a balanced version of my mod for the portion of the community who liked that sort of thing. He frequently made fun of the community however, and I was frequently forced to modify and delete his posts so that people would not be offended.

It culminated in him waging an all out clan war against the clan ABA, on these very forums, because they changed the name of a popular UT2004 mapper's map. It ruined multiple threads and I had to strongly reprimand both sides. It was at this point that the man who I had brought onto my team and tried to keep from getting banned flipped out and began to accuse the RS moderation of being inept.

He quickly escalated and was placed on moderated mode to protect the integrity of this forum. Again, it was my hand and Xav's that kept him from being banned. Azarael then openly attacked several members of the moderation staff, a multitude of forum members, and even the RS developers themselves. He stormed off the forums and asked us to 'nuke' his account. That request was denied and we didn't hear from him for a bit.

Then abruptly, as in this morning, he attacks me personally on our ModDB page for "having the leadership, charisma and management skills of the average sewer rat [that] can't even code properly. " He then proceeds to steal the Sergeant Kelly's Bonus Pack V9 intellectual property and mod content against the wishes of Captain Xavious, Blade Sword, Kien, and I.

This is a man who has betrayed the Ballistic Community, and who has of this hour been permanently banned. I hope this clears up any misgivings you all have about the situation.

Sincerely,
Sergeant Kelly.
Author:  Sarge [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Damn man. how much damage can you do with a code....
At anyrate, I would love to see some of his comments that would be interesting.
Author:  lepmuR [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
I dont wanna start another argue because im not behind the whole story but this ...
Quote:
Well, after sending out a cease and desist letter, we have found out that Azarael has decided to steal our mod content to continue producing his balance pack

... is normal. You dont have any rights on this content. Produce something and let other fork it or modify it, or let it be :\

Its may not a nice behaviour, but it is like that. Im behind his balance pack. His packs are the only packs, who make BW playable in any ladder. Several bugfixes and strong balancing within a little scriptfile.

And well, if he fork it, your content is more and faster around then before - so, why not ?
You could see it as a tribute. The players in competitive play can play with the forked version as well as the fanbase here in this thread can play with your version, no one lacks any content like if it would be really "stolen".

This all reminds me hardly to the RO modding scene after the game got retail. Instead of working together share and spread the avaiable content, its a festival of dick heads.

To the ban and forum behaviour i have nothing to say and dont wanna say anything, though its a decision of site admins and moderators. They should know how to handle in such this situation.

I hope it will in the future still possible for Az. to fork some content without any bigger problems or mess up wiht other ppl.

I really dont want a second Red Orchestra community full of dickheads where the fans have nothing at all.

Sry for the bad the english ...
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
lepmuR wrote:
... is normal. You dont have any rights on this content. Produce something and let other fork it or modify it, or let it be :\


Why do we not have any rights to our own content? I never released my models under GPL, I never released them with any permission for anyone to use them outside of specifically Sgt. Kelly's pack.

lepmuR wrote:
And well, if he fork it, your content is more and faster around then before - so, why not ?
You could see it as a tribute. The players in competitive play can play with the forked version as well as the fanbase here in this thread can play with your version, no one lacks any content like if it would be really "stolen".


I see no tribute in this. He stated himself that he has no respect for me, and a tribute is a sign of respect, is it not?

My models and animations are being used without my permission. What is it if not stolen?

lepmuR wrote:
This all reminds me hardly to the RO modding scene after the game got retail. Instead of working together share and spread the avaiable content, its a festival of dick heads.


I see no problem with a group making their work into the commercial world from ground up not wanting it freely distributed. It cuts in on their own sales, money they should have rightfully earned through their hard work.

But we aren't concerned with anyone cutting in on our own profits, we just want a some respect. Respect for the authors of this mod, respect for the RuneStorm community and Staff, and most importantly, respect for the opinions of others.

My own models and animations that I do not want to see used in anything other than Sgt. Kelly's pack:
    Bulldog Assault Cannon
    CYLO Assault Weapon
    A49 Skrith Blaster
    NEX PlasEdge
    Dragons Tooth Sword
    MR-DR88 Machine Pistol
    Coach Gun
    Sawn-Off Shotgun
    Fists
    Black Ops Wristblade
    NE0 PlasaEdge
    Chainsaw Sword

This list is not all-inclusive.
Author:  Izumo_CZ [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Captain Xavious wrote:
Why do we not have any rights to our own content? I never released my models under GPL, I never released them with any permission for anyone to use them outside of specifically Sgt. Kelly's pack.


I wasn't reading if Epic allowed you to copyright your content at all unless you have Unreal Engine license, so they might not even allow you to license your files in any way. However releasing stuff into the world without valid license specified in it means that anybody can do anything with it.

Anyway it's very common in UT community that people modify others work for their own purporses.
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
How does that work? You put your coffee cup on a public desk without specifying its yours, and anyone can grab it and call it their own? What is the point of the GPL that says specifically that this kind of thing is legal then? Just for the hell of it?

Izumo_CZ wrote:
Anyway it's very common in UT community that people modify others work for their own purporses.


Just because everyone else does it doesn't make it right. And I don't care if its for private use, that's perfectly fine by me, but that's not the case. It is hosted on a public server, giving it access to everyone without users having any way to know who the original creators of the content are.

And please, lets not do what Azarael done and take this to another thread. Ballistic Weapons for 2k4 is a fine forum for this.
Author:  TurdDrive [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Plus the Data protection act will be well abound the Unreal licence details in a court.
Author:  Captain Xavious [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Itellectual Property Rights and other stuff.
Posts related specifically to Azarael and Sgt. Kelly's weapon pack moved to a separate thread.
Author:  Izumo_CZ [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sergeant Kelly's Weapon Pack [V9 RC]
Captain Xavious wrote:
How does that work? You put your coffee cup on a public desk without specifying its yours, and anyone can grab it and call it their own? What is the point of the GPL that says specifically that this kind of thing is legal then? Just for the hell of it?


Law and morale are two different things. The point of GPL and similar licenses is to preserver your authorship and mainly to define duties for anyone who shall use your product (release the source etc.). Notice how GPL licensed projects have very carefully noted the license conditions.
Author:  ShadowBlade [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Itellectual Property Rights and other stuff.
Look. Whoever made that content, owns it. They cannot sell it based on the UT2004 game, but they can decide who is allowed to use their content. They do not profit off of the pack, but the content BELONGS to the creators. It is the right of the creators to decide who to allow the use of it.
If you are not granted permission, it's not legal and it's not moral.
Author:  Grizzlykiller [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Itellectual Property Rights and other stuff.
ShadowBlade wrote:
Look. Whoever made that content, owns it. They cannot sell it based on the UT2004 game, but they can decide who is allowed to use their content. They do not profit off of the pack, but the content BELONGS to the creators. It is the right of the creators to decide who to allow the use of it.
If you are not granted permission, it's not legal and it's not moral.


True Words.

If you bake a Pie using someone elses Ingredients They probably want some of the profit you make Or they wouldnt want you to sell it, Its a little different but kinda the same Principals.

Azarael wasnt Who i thought he was im afraid. He was a man who thought stealing and Copying work was Good well, he got what was coming to him im afraid.
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