Problem:
Nowadays, FPS games make use of the Rag-Doll to completely replace death animations. Though very effective, sometimes it removes the intensity of death as the body is reduced to a lifeless doll, as opposed to death animations where the body can be seen writhing in pain before collapsing to the floor. SOLDIER of FORTUNE makes very good use of the death animation in the form of "Gore Zones" and the GHOUL System - each part of the human body triggers a different death animation when shot or stabbed. And when further shot during the death sequence, the body simply falls to the floor in another death animation.

Hypothesis:
What if we combine the best features of the Rag-Doll and death animation (in the form of the GHOUL System)? It could be done so that when a body gets shot once, it could go into a death animation, and when shot a second time, it goes into Rag-Doll-state. It can also be done that if caught by an explosion, the body flies out in a looping death animation (arms and legs flailing around), and when it finally hits the floor, the Rag-Doll is triggered. This new Death-State could very well change the overall fun-factor of FPS games.

Observation:
Currently, some FPS games have tried to incorporate this Death-State - Star Wars: Battlefront has players flying in a looping animation after they are caught in an explosion. However, the game mostly deals with death animation and not much Rag-Doll, so the concept fails.

Conclusion:
None as of today... I still have other FPS games to test to see how they handle their Death-States. You guys can help me out too if you want. I really need to see if this concept has already been put into action properly.

Yes, make death more lively However I think what R S has developed is very awesome and leagues ahead from where UT started from. But to be honest I've never played SOF so other than other UTs, and Mech Warriors I don't have much to compare the present "style" of death to. But your proposal sounds great.

I only have one thing to say here; Valve made, what I think is the best death sequence ever, for HalfLife 2. Nothing beats Havoc physics, nothing does and never will.

I haven't seen Havoc Physics in-action yet... What does it look like?

Anyways... I'm renaming this concept into the "Dynamic Death-States System"... I'm still trying to streamline how it works for the many different ways to die in FPS games nowadays...

It looks beeeeautiful. It makes killing enemies in HL2 some of the most enjoyable moments you can have.
I feel sorry for anyone who hasn't shot a Combine soldier on a rooftop in the head with the .357 magnum and the corpse falls down the building.

I totally agree with you. Though when i first bought the game, they were a bit more static (not really), then a few months after they released a patch and made the ragdolls so smooth in the animations, is so awesome. The Source is truly amazing.

Can't agree more. Oblivion uses Havok too and the ragdoll deaths are actually very realistic. Plus, Titan Quest's physics engine has this special way of doing ragdolls. If you hit the creature a certain way, it will fly a certain way. If you uppercut somebody with a club, they fly up.

But I'm also after realism here... I just miss how the enemies scream in agony in SOF before they crumple lifelessly to the ground...

Like for example: shooting a guy in the groin-area will make him grab his crotch, squeal in high-pitched, pain-ridden agony, and after a few seconds of this delicious gore-fest (blood is spurting from his jewels, BTW), finally goes Rag-Doll...

So tell me, does HL2's Havoc do that...?

That sort of stuff is not up to the physics engine.

I sorta figured that it didn't...

But the problem is that the concept hasn't been done yet...

Imagine: GHOUL System's Location-based Death Animations, coupled with Havoc or NovodeX's physics...

... Equals unparalleled gore-fests you haven't seen in current-gen games!

That's my goal.

This hasn't been done probably because of the same reason why games are starting to suck more often in terms of gameplay; too much focus on graphics.

Squeenix comes to my mind when you say that, not Epic or ID Software...

Okay... maybe ID Software a little bit... or maybe more than a that...

Quake 4... why do you hurt me so...!? ;_;

Quake 4 wasn't developed by iD Software.

Aren't Raven part of iD?

Yea I think Raven is part of ID don't hold me on that though

I'm not 100% certain, but as far as I know they are two separate companies.
And by the way, I thought Quake 4 was a great game, and still is.

I haven't played Quake 4 or any of the quake series are they anything similar to doom in fun?

Doom 3 is crappy compared to Quake 4. (but still an ok game)

Quake 4 wasn't what I had expected though. I would have wanted to be the one man army like in Doom 3 or Quake 2.

Also, it feels so predictable. There is no freedom. For example at certain points you can't press an elevator button until a squad-mate enters the elevator. The game is forced in plenty other ways.

But looking past all that, I think it is a pretty good game, with great weapons and intense firefights.

That would be so frickin awesome... Man I really miss UT99's Crotch Shot mut, it worked so well with the standard model animations and the death messages were simply hilarious. One of the coolest muts ever. The 2K4 version sucked BAD, mainly because of the ragdoll stuff, but maybe there's better support in UT3. Probably not, but hope gets fragged last...

Anyway, if RS do make a game from scratch at some point, it should definitely have highly realistic, advanced death sequences that use both context-specific anims and ragdolls. And the carnage should be totally no holds barred, with brutal disembowelments, crawling amputees, bloodloss, blood trails, splintered bones, charred corpses, loss of bladder control, hideously screaming and cursing wounded... the works!

And nothing will disappear, blood and bodies will stay forever, since it will (hopefully) be a SP game rather than DM based.

I'm all for that except the loss of bladder control.

What exactly is loss of bladder control?

Well... something like uncontrollable peeing and such... maybe some blood in the urine and stuff... you know, the usual.

That's kinda freaky... and disturbing to an extent... but whatever works...

Anyways, I think nowadays some Game Developers use Rag-Dolls as an excuse not to make extensive animations, and that's just plain wrong. Those guys should learn what kind of animation/physics system should go with what situation and when.

I still want physics to play a role. Wouldn't it be odd if you fired a magnum shot and the person that got hit wouldn't fly backwards even the slightest and instead would fall to the floor like he died from a heart attack?

Those are the issues I'm trying to work out... What situations would automatically turn the body into Rag-Doll... Or what kind of animation would be appropriate for flying bodies...

You do realise that ragdolls is UT2's system right? In the case of Havoc physics, I think objects have physics attached at all times, but they aren't activated until a code is "woken up". Like when a person dies the physics will kick in and the body will fall to the floor realistically.

Meh... Rag-Dolls is a general term for me... For UT2... I call it Karma.

Also, about enjoying the pain your enemy is experiencing, all the Oblivion characters (even you) faces change when they are hurt. They look like they're actually hurt, not like emotionless potatoes that crumble at the whack of a blade. On a side note, some poses and falls end up looking VERY realistic, and I mean VERY realistic. At least in my point of view.

Maybe what you are looking for is a game that adds emotion to the pain, and also maybe force a certain movement to the ragdoll so that they are forced to clutch their injury and fall to the ground. It would need a certain variable to force an animation into the ragdoll. Just making a guess.

Well it should have solid botmatch, multiplayer (DM, TDM, something like CTF...) & extensive modding support, otherwise it would have very little replay value.