...that's exactly how fanboiz are made...

UT3 being a good game is not a scientific fact like gravity, it is your opinion. I have spent many hours playing the demo, which doesn't allow mods as far as I know, and I have reached the conclusion that I find it less interesting than vanilla UT2004.

And please display your fanboy attitude somewhere else. This thread is supposed to be about rendering engine discussions & BW's future.

Agreed, UT3 is Ok in terms but it lacks what UT2004 had, which is charm, UT3 is not bad, but it needs Major Refinements such as BW and a better map/mod installation system, because the one right now is crazy because of the all the folders.

and calling people a stuck up prick just because he's played the demo, he's not even going to get until it's like $19.99! he knows what he's talikng about, and calling him a prick is like sealing your fate.

I played UT since i was 7, and i know how great UT is, UT3 is not great, just merely passing by the Unreal franchise like a van with 5 kids screaming for a rest stop. So do you as you please, love ut3 or just whatever, but don't be calling people pricks just cause they don't like the game.

Alright, lets stop this right now. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and you are free to express them, but c'mon guys. Every time UT3 is brought up some form of argument is brought up.

Getting pretty annoying.

It doesn't matter what one person says to another, their opinions aren't likely to change any time soon. So lets just drop all this UT3 talk if you are going to argue about it every time, its getting pretty childish if you ask me.

Alright, sounds good to me

"Signs the Document"

To be fair, the released demo was considered a "BETA" demo, so it's not totally fair to judge the final product based on what you see on the demo. I guess it is Epic's fault for releasing something so shoddy to promote their product, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Also, ChaosUT3.

(following is my opinion, I don't want to fight with anyone)

And yet, Mark Rein keeps talking up how amazing the mods for the game are going to be. It's like they took their fanbase for granted, assumed they could deliver a barebones shell, and that everyone would just eat it all up and happily accept the burden of modding in all the stuff they left out.

Not trying to continue a UT3-flame fest, but I just have to say how confused I am over their plan of action.

They want the mod aspect to sell the game, but they reduce the options modders have.

They focused so hard on making it console-friendly, and they want to excite the PS3 crowd by telling them they will be able to play PC mods, but the PC version was like an afterthought, and playercounts on PC servers are dwindling. Who is going to be left to make these mods for the PS3 players to use? Yes, some on PC enjoy the game, will stick with it, and will turn out some dazzling mods. But imagine how many great mods the game will miss out on because talented people took a look at what they had to work with, and decided to pass it on by?



Really, the beta demo is much the same as retail, but with more stuff. Yeah, it has Warfare, but Warfare is just a tweaked version of Onslaught, nothing new. When the 'beta' demo came out, everyone who bashed it was attacked with, "it's just a beta, you idiot," but it turned out little changed. If you played the beta and didn't like it, you're not going to like the retail.

It's been patched once, and they have announced a second patch, but it will only matter to people who felt "kind of irritated" at the game's lack of options, I doubt the patches will change the experience for anyone who was completely turned off by it to begin with.

I have to say I feel like I've been taken for a ride, like I got an unfinished game that was pushed out the door before it had a chance to develop anything beyond the basics. Fifty bucks, and I have trouble mustering the will to play it more than an hour or so a week. I guess that's the price of blind loyalty. I don't think something as simple as a patch can turn it around.

Take your Valium, The patch will be here before April.

Ok, this thread has gone far enough...

If people don't stop throwing abuse around at each other, I'm going to start locking threads again and warning people.

This is supposed to be a discussion...A discussion involves different people's different ideas and opinions...that doesn't mean to say they are wrong, just because you think differently !

Tolerance and trying to understand other people's viewpoints is what discussions are for....Not trying to insist you are always correct...

Yup I was right,this has elevated to a flame war.Guys listen to yourselves,just calm down and try to develop the topic.

I suggest someone do a little research and see if there are any other games that will be suitable for Runestorm's expansion.Rather than exccesive bantering that as Cyberax has stated,will only serve to lock this thread.

Id say lock this..We have went over this topic 1000000 times...Some of you like the Idea of porting to Ut3 some don't, Ok..End Of Discussion for god sakes...I'll be playing Ut3 while you gents continue to kill each other..

Onyx, Chill the hell out..Before I put you back in your cage.

OK.. time i said something here..

Baklajan.. We'll so whatever we please when it comes to making our game, and i'm not very keen on keeping BW as a mod for 2k4! Project Archon is the universe, and honestly, you have little idea of what we're aiming for, neither will you get such details until our project has grown largely... We'll not be looking for input on our next projects, and things will remain secret until we feel like divulging some information

Bottom line, when we move our project to the next engine, we'll think long and hard about what to use!

FYI, slowdowns in UT2k4 BW, is simply the engines fault.. we can't change how it renders particles and projectors.. if it slows you down, turn it off!

At least I hope you'll accept Kaboodles' (and hopefully my) sponsorship and do a few final tweaks to BW-2004 so it makes a fully playable modification, at last. I'm mainly interested with UT2004 and the amazing experience that BW brings to it, but I couldn't have cared less about what BW might reincarnate as on a different engine as long as that isn't a multiplayer tournament game closely resembling UT.

As for Archon, IMO a team of three people is simply unable to create a fully developed game with races, classes and so on. Even if each of you have been into the game design business for your whole life. You aim high, but forget that games like Crysis, - guess it's roughly on the same level with your own quality plank, - are made for years by dozens of people...

/The most advanced game mod in the history, in terms of the number of new elements introduced, is Forgotten Hope 2 for Battlefield 2. It recreates, or at least is aimed to recreate, all the theatres of WWII with such historicity and detalization that we no longer need Red Orchestra, Call of Duty, Brothers in Arms and any other WWII games that exist or are planned to hit the shelf in the next few years. They've got about 40 or 50 people on their team and it took them for about 3 years to make it to the first beta, which despite all the amazing detalization and kinda 50 different vehicles for the Brits and the Germans, is all rotten with bugs and contains just some 20% of the overall planned content. It will take them for at least 1,5 more years to finish the mod in a playable form, so here's a good guess what it takes to create a non-commercial game of commercial scale. I'm saying so because FH2 shares nothing with BF2 but the engine, and the scale of the project is either comparable or even surpasses that of most modern commercial games./

I doubt they are aiming that high. No sane person would with a team of 3 members.

Who said anything about 3 people being in the team

You will all sadly just have to wait for the news on the next project, and the outcome of BW for UT3 when the devs have had time to go through the details carefully....

I don't think people understand the work involved....

But what about this?

http://runestorm.com/pl/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?51253

Being a retro-tard myself, I'm doing my best to open a stable 24/7 set of BW servers, looks like we'll be able to launch a whole new site and forums... there are a multitude of players still keen on UT2004 but extremely bored with the default dull weapons and game modes... launching a proper advertising capmpaign for BW2004 will result, hopefully, in a whole new community emerging around the said planned servers.

One thing I need (and here, hopefully, mine and Kaboodles' viewpoints at least partially meet) is a small bunch of fixes, a few more *optional* restrictions to the weapon slots system, and, FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY - a compromise solution to the Run/Aim switch problem, namely making walking mode the same with the aiming mode. Which is commonly found in most multiplayer shooters, and simultaneously reduces the shaking 'cause you are moving slower, the recoil 'cause you're pressing the stock against you, and the chaos 'cause your character is aiming. Just the thing needed when you're about to place a few very accurate shots but don't have the time to consider all the factors affecting chaos, recoil and shaking =)

You guys just don't know the full potential of BW. Look how many guys play BF2 mods while vanilla BF2 is rapidly fading away, but these mods enjoy a lot of publicity and the devs rarely keep something in secret, rather preferring to propel newsletters all over the 'internets'. But most people just neglect BW because of its reputation of a 'forever-work-in-progress' mod that gets more and more bloated while persistent problems never go away.

Sponsoring a patch or two plus the help my friend offered could make a revolution in BW, or maybe even make it a second CS 1.6 - graphically retarded by now, still enjoyed by thousands.

BTW, there's quite a number of ChaosUT servers despite of this mod's being much simpler than BW and having a bit more on the dumb side, the 'dumb side' here being a common tendency about vanilla UT04 weapons and anything designed to follow this sort of game mechanics... So if ChaosUT still enjoys a good deal of popularity and provides its community with lots of fun, who said BW had missed its time?

Besides,look at Gas Powered games,they only hit 10 just recently!
And they have been making stuff like supreme commander.

He hasn't said which OS he has, but I suspect it's Windows XP, because that one is giving the 8800 a hard time. My 8800 GTX should be able to devour ut2k4, extra particles or no, his Ultra should do it even better. It's the fault of Nvidia's drivers, not RS's or even UE2's, the word seems to be that a fix "may" be available in the spring.

Not true. The latest WinXP Nvidia drivers, just as well as anything issued in 2007, don't have that problem. I only experience slowdowns to about 15 fps in very cramped situations, with AA and AF set to maximum, as well as all the settings in the graphics tab set to Ultra high. You just don't realize how many particles spawn on occassions when there's a lot of shooting going on around, especially I mean smoke and blood. I can't recall another game that would have amounts of gore, fire and smoke like that I only encountered that kind of lags for a few times, when about 8 bots in the same room were fighting with grenades and G5's, or maybe there was just too much gibbing going on. I've just tried that on Vista (I both have Vista and XP on the same machine, selectable through an OS manager), it does nothing but lower the overall FPS. That's why I hate Windows Vista and keep it but for experiments. BTW, my WinXP is a 64-bit one

You got one thing right "The Retard Part", I don't know the full potential of BW? Man where do you get this shit? This is the first post I have read of yours since the others are mindless drivel. Go ahead and setup servers...you'll get Like 1% of the people from here to play on them and all my people are moving to Ut3 so that leaves you and Kaboodles....Have fun.

Agreed on the fixes part..But you guys keep shoving these stupid ass new weapons down their throat therefore NOTHING gets fixed.

Gimme a break dude...you know nothing about running a community or servers, you don't code, you just fill the forums with your LONG winded opinions.

+1 to the amount of people that find you rather annoying.

Not true. I code for Oblivion, Battlefield 2 and my local LAN BW server feels ok, it's 16 players only but it rarely has any free slots. One thing that becomes clear, however, is that you really don't realize the full potential of BW - at least personally you, Wup. Seems like you judge the games by the graphics, and give less priority to the gameplay. Of course such an opinion has a right for existence. And I don't see any reason for you to get upset or annoyed over my messages and/or intentions to set up a few BW-2004 servers. If you and 'your men' migrate to UT3, that doesn't mean that everybody migrates to UT3. That doesn't even mean that UT3 will ever attract an audience comparable to that of UT2004. Repeating the old news, UT3 is by now one of the least popular online shooters. Or should I call on Captain Obvious to sound more convincing?

Good Luck to you. On your endeavors I don't judge anything on Graphics alone... As far as gameplay you need to come over to 1 of my servers on a Friday or Saturday night and I'll show you game play.. As far as me getting annoyed..I'm not. I'm glad you are gonna host some legacy stuff...As far as your post again they are as I said annoying to the max...I really think your the only one listening to it.. I understand BW completely I just don't agree with your twisted sense of what it should be.

There ya go. One of the reasons.
I suggest that you start changing the way you write your messages, because obviously it is not working. It is no strange coincidence that heated discussions pop up whenever you do.
If this goes on for much longer we'll be forced to take actions here, I hope you understand that.

If anyone wants to take the above discussion further, it'll be done through private messaging, seeing how it does not concern the public.

That being said, lets go back on topic.

Well at this time, we are looking at interesting new possibilites and future projects. For a long time, the "unrealness" of UT2k4 has been a constant hindrence to BW and the type of gameplay we were aiming for when we started the mod. Never the less, it turned out pretty well. By now I think we know what UT2004 is capable of and its possibilites regarding BW and it looks like a change is going to be nessecary. As for UT3, we're not going to say yes or no either way until we have fully evaluated its possibilities. We would like to have BW in UT3 as well, but not if its more work than its worth.

BW was just a collection of weapons from Archon. While we were tinkering with UT2004 and trying out some stuff, we thought "Oh well, we may as well release this, someone might enjoy it". I am humbled by your thourough understanding of the Archon story, Baklajan and impressed by your phsycic powers, cause I can't see how else you could know the plot without our ever having released any info about it. What I am more inclined to beleive is that you read was the background stories for the weapons. These are just the stories of the weapons, they don't exactly reveal much about Archon... If you are not interested in story, which is what you said, well thats fine. Archon's gameplay is intended to be more advanced than UT2004's (though thats not saying much).

In the mean time, everyone will have to be patient before our next projects get unleashed. We will investigate a UT3 port in the shorter term. As for further develpoment of BW, this will depend on further interest in BW and UT2k4, appearance of major issues and sponsorship. You could sponsor some of the changes you want (well the ones that are possible anyway), but the difficult ones will not be cheap.

Ok, gotta comment on this.

Your tastes in gaming very much differ from my own and I assume they differ from Baklajan's as well. I (and I mean no disrespect by this) have been to your vCTF server and have not found it very enjoyable at all. I find the vehicles and chaotic maps dilute the effect of the weapons, the very essence of BW. But hey, that's what you and your gang is into. You prefer the circus, and I prefer the ballet, or something. I dunno.

The difference between your gaming server/community and others is that it has had much more time to grow and mature. Server supremacy was not won simply with superior gameplay (although if your gameplay totally sucks, you would never get so many fans, right)? The Generals Ballistic server simply did not have the time to generate the amount of popularity your servers enjoy. Then that long outage came without warning, and we lost pretty much everyone. But back then, before the first outage, we had our fair share of regulars.

You guys had the advantage of a good, long head-start and a much more stable source of funding.

EDIT: Case in point: This [HSP] building server which has been around for quite some time somewhat recently added Ballistic gametypes to their rotation and is currently my server of choice for BW fun. In fact, there's a 5v5 conflict game going on now. I think I'll join them.

XD

But seriously,lets not deviate from the topic,this thread is already on fire,lets not let it fall off a cliff to.

I would be so happy to find that having the x64 version would mean the difference, I think I'd have no reason not to buy it. I have a 64-bit processor, but only x86 XP, and I have not had decent performace in ut2k4 with any version of the drivers at all, with or without BW. The issue was fixed in an older Vista patch, however. There is a long thread on the nvidia peer support forums about it, the responses from nvidia we've been getting in the past few days is that it is on the to-do list to be fixed in some 171 or 173 version or whatever, and should be ready around spring. But it's been like a damn year already, nvidia!

But I don't know if the subject of the x64 XP ever came up. So if I could fix it by just getting th x64 version, I'd just go do it. But it did seem to me like there were times with less dynamic lighting areas (I had dynamic lighting disabled, but not hardwareTL), but with a lot of BW stuff going on, and the the frames were excellent. If I disable hardwareTL, the strange stuttering is all but gone, and the extra perfomance hit would only be like you described in the absolute craziest situations, like on angelh@rt maps.

Ok, it seems like my negotiations with the hardware and bandwidth owners have made some good progress towards striking a deal. Me, my friend and a couple of other guys currently have at our disposal some $60,000 worth of hardware like a bunch of QX9000-something based two-processor server systems, and much of this computing power is almost never used - these are machines which work as a kind of hardware reserve in a web provider office. The other factor is that there's a good deal of bandwidth never used. The last factor is that the owners of this stuff arent' against launching some 99 BW servers in the nearest future at all.

What we are aiming at, is creating a new BW community for English and Russian players with a site in two language versions available. Since UT2004 is still extremely popular in Russia, even if the English-speaking world had abandoned BW forever, we'd get a couple of full servers anyway. Hopefully this is not the case, so we expect the foreign fans of BW to join as soon after the site is launched.

The main idea is to make as large part of this planet's population aware of BW as possible. A spacious gallery of self-explaining screenshots, some press releases, newsletters, advertising on other UT2004 sites and such like stuff. For the sake of what? Just because I'm still encountering people who see a screenshot from BW and yell ZOMFG what the stuff is that!?!?

We are asking the Runestorm members if it will be ok:

1. Copying the RuneStorm Wiki and probably adding some extra info and screenshots to it.

2. Opening a new forum, fully dedicated to the discussion of the existing BW content. Not an Ideas / Suggestions / Development forum, but just a forum where people discuss what they like and dislike about the current build of the mod, primarily concerning the balance and game mechanics. And the current BW tournaments and such like stuff as well. All the current moderators of this forum are kindly asked to be the moderators in the English department of those forums as well. We don't expect lots of posts, but at least a few dozen people posting once in a while, something like these forums.

3. Creating a donation box, which will directly transfer money to the devs. I don't know for sure how ok this is in the West, but in our country this is the standard form to say thank you to a person who keeps a server or does something for three. The most successfull and popular 'freeware' projects now gain as much as $20,000 monthly, so we can always hope for a $200 per month.

If the donation thing runs fine, I hope these sums will be enough to pay the devs for what they have made so far, and maybe even sponsor a few further additions. However even if they don't feel like adding anything, the funds will still keep moving to South Africa 'cause this is by no means bartering.

And it seems that my phrase that many of you don't realize the full potential of BW is severely misinterpreted. I just meant that many of you seem to regard BW as something not serious, secondary, and never making it above the level of a mod developed for and played by a very limited community of less than a hundred people. My opinion is that most people have never been aware what BW is and especially what it came to be by the end of 2007. I guess, with a proper advertising campaign and a few fast servers at hand, it can become an extremely popular game... Like Point of Existence 2, which by now has more players than the original Battlefield 2 which gave PoE its engine and modding platform.

2 UndeadRoadkill:

Something tells me this is a very intermittent problem having to do with the motherboard, its BIOS revision and all sorts of things but not WinXP 64. I only use it because I need something to run 4 Gb of memory, because (ridiculously!) such an amount of RAM is on the list of minimal system requirements for Cinematics Mod 6.4, which definitely kicks ass (imagine vanilla HL2 and the episodes with graphics improved to a level that easily defeats Crysis). Since Vista is always trying to take up at least 50% of RAM with its crap, I had to resort to WinXP 64 but besides the larger RAM limit it doesn't make any difference with WinXP 32bit. In some cases, it even refuses to start some older WinXP applications or starts crying for an x86 emulator software. As for DirectX10, Crysis is easily modded to run on Very High on DirectX9 due to the (well-)known fact that the game only uses a total of 2 (two!...) DirectX10-specific procedures and the rest of Very High is reserved to Vista not because of DX10 but simply because of marketing reasons (also to make people buy Vista since this can't be done without some serious customer prodding). So basically I lose the more advanced motion blur effect (DX10-specific) and get all the rest on DX9, with some 3800 Mb of free RAM and much higher FPS rate. Bioshock is just the same thing - it only takes about five or six procedures exclusive to DX10 while the rest of DX9-supported. Even Far Cry 2, according to the interviews, will only have a limited DX10 capability. And so will do all the games which were in development prior to the release of DX10 SDK, in other words we won't get a pure DX10 game until late 2009. That's why there's no reason to f**k with Vista at all. BTW, even Gears of War can be modded to get back some of the shader goodness artificially restricted to DX10. Of course, a couple of pure DX10 effects won't be in, but those just don't justify installing Vista. Getting back to Nvidia, Quake4 still freezes my system until it doesn't response even to the Power button, than all the BIOS settings are reset on reboot and CMOS checksum miserably fails. That's because somehow my hardware configuration forces the nv4_disp driver to enter an endless loop in that specific game regardless of the driver version and the OS. None of the people I know ever had this happen to Q4 on their systems, at least a game never severed their BIOS and CMOS. So maybe this Nvidia problem you experience, - and it seems to be much harsher for you than for me, - is another 'peculiarity' of Nvidia hardware going wild in some specific hardware environments. That's just because Nvidia always promise to fix it and are never able to - they just can't recreate it on their hardware. Sorry for you, but I'm in the same boat - Q4 kills my system. No it's not an X-Fi driver issue, I also checked on that =) It's just plain Nvidia fun.

Sign me up for moderating, I'll help out with the English part!

I never realized you were so serious with helping BW. By all means, I want to help RS as much as possible, if there's anything I can do to get this off the ground, by all means, tell me.

Also, PM Cyberax. We've been needing an overhaul for the Wiki, I'm sure if you got some people who want to help with it, we can work something out.

Signed.

First of all I have to have some papers signed with the blood of the guy who offered the hardware and the bandwidth. These are but promises, I personally trust my people completely, but it won't be until I can show you some four or six (such a napoleonic number is just for the lulz) fully functional BW servers as a demo that I go on with the Wiki and stuff. I'm talking to the chief guy tonight, guess it will take about a month to settle all the official matters - you know it's not easy getting a game server running somewhere where it should never be, and getting this done officially is even a slower process - papers, permissions and promises... Since they're offering this for free, we must sign some papers stating that we are fully responsible for all the harm these servers might bring and so on and so forth. In case we are trying to install some spyware disguised as a BW server or maybe a missile guiding system.

And, of course, sorting out a license for the forum engine. Even in Russia setting up public forums based on pirate software is an essentially bad idea. As for the legal status of servers, due to the obvious yet unspeakable reasons, those won't care what kind of crap you offer instead of a legal CD-key when you join. On the other hand, we don't plan promoting pirate copies of UT2004 in any imaginable way. It's up to the user to hold the responsibility for the origin of his copy of UT2004 be it legal or pirate one, and take the punishment if they're going against the copyright laws of their country of residence, but the servers themselves won't care what kind of UT2004 you use as long as it's the latest version of the game.

To crown it all, we'll have a nice time configuring the AntiTCC anti-cheat mutator, I guess so far this is the most advanced means of doing away with cheaters... It comes with a manual so long that it would make a nice blunt weapon if printed on paper.