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Some weapons ideas
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Author:  Bjossi [ Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
This mod is so awesome there are no words to describe it, the sound effects, the models and skins, balance, just everything is perfect.

But I have some ideas that could be added/changed in the mod.

A) I think a Ballistic Weapons version of a Minigun would be great, you could perhaps make it shoot blue crystals like the Stinger did in Unreal.

B) I personally think the sound of the Railgun needs tiny tweaking. You hear kind of an "eeling" sound shortly after firing. I think it would be better if that particular sound effect was removed and instead make the default firing sound a bit more like a Railgun, take Red Faction for an example.

Btw, I think it would be a good idea to make the Railgun ignore armor, so it eats up health points but not armor points.

C) You should make a super weapon(s) for Ballistic Weapons mod. Perhaps make the Minigun a superweapon and perhaps a large and complex-looking energy weapon that shoots large plasma rounds that will make large hit effects and do extreme damage.

D) Make the armors protect you alot less from damage. And instead create a new item, a belt-like item, when picked up it will give you energy shielding, so you are invincible until the armor points are gone. The only weapon that will still penetrate you is the Railgun of course.

And when you get hit while this shield is in effect, you will see a tiny purple shockwave.

E) I do not know if this is possible, but I will mention it anyway. Basicly, hit effects. When you get hit by a bullet, there will be a small blood mark where the bullet landed on you. And you won´t see the blood marks you "gained" until you die, or you go to behindview.


I may have more ideas later. :)

Post edited by: Bjossi, at: 2006/01/13 18:54
Author:  Redshift [ Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Bjossi wrote:
Quote:
A) I think a Ballistic Weapons version of a Minigun would be great, you could perhaps make it shoot blue crystals like the Stinger did in Unreal.


Yeah, the U1 Stinger was pretty cool... Maybe you could even add a third mode, besides regular and shotgun fire, via the "special" key. This would be a high velocity tarydium shell that explodes on impact, sending out crystal shards in all directions. If it hits a player or vehicle directly it does massive damage. For balance this mode would have relatively low rof and cost more ammo, as would shotgun mode.

Also cool would be a (non-spammy!!) flamethrower that can be turned into an incendiary bomb via the special function. It can either be thrown, or used jihad style. The size of the explosion depends on how much fuel (ammo) you have left. Altfire could be small incendiary rockets / grenades.
Author:  Bjossi [ Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Is it possible to make a non-spammy flamethrower? :P

Here are my ideas of firemodes for the Tarydium Minigun.
Primary: Just spin-up, shoot like mad, and spin-down, pretty simple and deadly.

Alternate: Spin-lock, so when you click/press, the current spin-speed of the Minigun barrels won´t reduce when stop holding down prim. fire. The max speed you can lock is 80%, spin-locking at 100%, the speed of the spin will reduce to 80% and stop there until alt. fire is pressed again.

Alternate2: Holding down alt. fire, will make the barrels spin faster and faster, until it reaches 175%, then you are shooting so fast that you can get rid of a heavily armored enemy in less than a second. But this will eat up ammo faster than any gun in Ballistic.
Author:  RuneStorm [ Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Interesting Ideaz...
A minigun is an awesome weapon(in real life). The only problem is its extreme firerate, 4000 - 10000 rounds per minute, causes recoil way over infantry use(270+ pounds for a little one), but this is a game, so such a thing might just go in somewhere. In fact its too cool not to, so we'll see what we can do. The other problem is that with it high fire rate there comes lots of hit traces and stuff. To make it an awesome gun(not like the joke miniguns you see in many games which dont even measure up to a modern smg), we will have to overcome these little difficulties...:laugh:
We were thinking of something shard cannonish. It was up for vote before the gold edition and may surface again later...
We were planning a flamethrower, but simply did not have time to include it in the gold. Obviously it would be really cool and super devastating, but also to the user if not handled correctly...
If armor did not protect from railgun shots, I don't think anyone would survive a shot...
Yes, blood effects on players would be cool... We were wanting to do that, but unreal did not have a nice way to implement such a thing. The best we could come up with was to attach a projector to the victim and keep it there for each wound. This would be slow though and look wierd cause it would move around slightly.
We will have to see about super weapons some time. We want all our weapons to take skill to use, not just a one shot, no effort, certain frag sort of thing... A minigun or flamethrower, or devastating suicide vest might constitute such a toy...:)
Author:  Tolil [ Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
I think the stinger was cool (especially in UC2) but it could fire as fast as the M50 and have a 50 round clip.
Author:  Redshift [ Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Bjossi wrote:
Quote:
Is it possible to make a non-spammy flamethrower? :P


Sure is! The problem with flamethrowers from other mods, specifically CUT and Annihilation Arsenal, is that the flames engulf half the screen as soon as you start firing. That kills framerates, obscures enemies, and generally sucks. It would be refreshing to see a FT that shoots a relatively tight stream of burning napalm or a similar sticky substance. Damage would be severe, but localized. That way it would still be a skill weapon. Little napalm rockets or nades would add some range, but again would require skill to deliver if the damage radius is isn't too large. As for the self destruct feature... It would be powerful for sure with a full tank, but it would cost you your weapon, and possibly even kill you if you're stuck in a tight spot. So I think there would be some balance.

Btw, would it be possible to make the FT explode if a player takes a certain amount of damage while wielding it? If so, it would add a lot of realism and some interesting tactical problems / opportunities...

Oh, and instead of a regular FT you could have something a bit more futuristic, maybe a plasma thrower or something. If there are rayguns, might as well have ray flamethrowers. :lol:
Author:  Tolil [ Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
yeah molten plasma....anyone play weapons of evil? now that was a good flamethrower.
Author:  Redshift [ Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Yep, WoE has an excellent flame thrower. Not too spammy, and with some nice extras (the 2 fireball modes). Still, it would be nice to see something with an even tighter beam and some mini rockets. Maybe swarm missiles, Robotech style (only not as many per launch, that would be way too spammy). *Drunk* mini missiles like U4E had (has?), only incendiary... :P Could call it the Firestorm, LOL.

And speaking of missiles and such, how about this for a super weapon: a giant multi ammo rocket launcher. It would fire incendiary rockets, goo rockets, explosive (shrapnel) rockets, electric shock rockets, monster spawning projectiles etc. all at once, in one big (say, 15-20 projectiles), drunk swarm. Total pandemonium. 1st & third person firing animations could be very cool, with multiple (1 per rocket) launch tube covers slowly opening up before the weapon fires.
Author:  Redshift [ Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Post edited by: Redshift, at: 2006/01/14 12:20
Author:  Bjossi [ Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
RuneStorm wrote:
Quote:
Interesting Ideaz...
A minigun is an awesome weapon(in real life). The only problem is its extreme firerate, 4000 - 10000 rounds per minute, causes recoil way over infantry use(270+ pounds for a little one), but this is a game, so such a thing might just go in somewhere. In fact its too cool not to, so we'll see what we can do. The other problem is that with it high fire rate there comes lots of hit traces and stuff. To make it an awesome gun(not like the joke miniguns you see in many games which dont even measure up to a modern smg), we will have to overcome these little difficulties...:laugh:

We were thinking of something shard cannonish. It was up for vote before the gold edition and may surface again later...

We were planning a flamethrower, but simply did not have time to include it in the gold. Obviously it would be really cool and super devastating, but also to the user if not handled correctly...

If armor did not protect from railgun shots, I don't think anyone would survive a shot...

Yes, blood effects on players would be cool... We were wanting to do that, but unreal did not have a nice way to implement such a thing. The best we could come up with was to attach a projector to the victim and keep it there for each wound. This would be slow though and look wierd cause it would move around slightly.
We will have to see about super weapons some time. We want all our weapons to take skill to use, not just a one shot, no effort, certain frag sort of thing... A minigun or flamethrower, or devastating suicide vest might constitute such a toy...:)


Yes you are right about everything. But using creativity can lead to good solutions. :)
A Ballistic Minigun could have a fire rate limitation for example.

What about a nailgun type of gun that shoots sharp crystals? Would make you say ouch out loud if you get a good shoot at an enemy. :p

Wouldn´t a flamethrower need all sorts of optimizations so it would not burn the FPS with the players?

Well you are right, what about the armor protects less for RG shots, like 65% insted of 99.9% like it seems to do by default in UT2004?

Are projectors 3D objects? You could make a projector that looks like a hole, it´s called tricking the eyes. :)

Btw, it would be more "future-realistic" to have the armor protect 65% for all guns, and a "NanoTech Shield" (like in Red Faction) protect 99% from damage.


Btw, I have tried to use a mutator like Random Weapon Swap with your weapons, but it does not seem to work correctly, the firemodes get weird mixups for some weapons.

So I suggest a mutator called "Ballistic Weaponizer", you can choose what weapon to replace with what, or randomize things.
Author:  Tolil [ Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Worm Weapon Arena also crashes the game, but for selecting try worm weapon replacer http://www.ut2003hq.com/pafiledb2/pafil ... le&id=3603 It works great. And also I think instead of a energy shield there should be a battle suit. Stomp, Stomp, Stomp....
Author:  Bjossi [ Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Well, now I got a brand new idea, what about few different armors that randomly spawn on the default powerup spawnpoints?

For example.
Heavy Kevlar Vest: Takes 20% from all combat damage.

Light Titanium Vest: Takes 45% from all combat damage.

Type-3 NanoTech Suit: Takes 85% from all combat damage. It is similar to the Light Titan Vest, but it has a complex technology that renders a 3.5 nm layer of electro-magnetic field inside, so it slows down incoming bullets dramatically.

I think it would be great to have an armor system that when you pick it up, instead of seeing the number 50 or 100, you will see the protection percentage.

So basicly, you keep the armor until you die, but when you get shot, this percentage lowers, so you get less and less protected from the armor. This would be more realistic, since armor protection reduces when there are bullet holes in it.
Author:  Tolil [ Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:52 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
and 1 rocket = 0% Also, for a super weapon there could be something like a target painter, or a Portable Howitzer, I know howitzers worked great in Remote Strike. another thing

Bjossi wrote:
Quote:
Well, now I got a brand new idea, what about few different armors that randomly spawn on the default powerup spawnpoints?

For example.
Heavy Kevlar Vest: Takes 20% from all combat damage.

Light Titanium Vest: Takes 45% from all combat damage.

Type-3 NanoTech Suit: Takes 85% from all combat damage. It is similar to the Light Titan Vest, but it has a complex technology that renders a 3.5 nm layer of electro-magnetic field inside, so it slows down incoming bullets dramatically.

I think it would be great to have an armor system that when you pick it up, instead of seeing the number 50 or 100, you will see the protection percentage.

So basicly, you keep the armor until you die, but when you get shot, this percentage lowers, so you get less and less protected from the armor. This would be more realistic, since armor protection reduces when there are bullet holes in it.
Type-3 NanoTech Suit[/quote]

How?

Post edited by: joseph77, at: 2006/01/15 03:57
Author:  Faceless [ Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
1) On the minigun - continuing in the vein of Ballistic's futuristic semi-realism, perhaps a full minigun would be almost too much for an infantryman to handle. Consider making a minigun impossible to fire while moving along the lines of the WoE Personal Ion Cannon, or requiring a mounting deployment to give it any degree of accuracy. A stabilizer frame like the smart guns from Aliens would assist in hauling the weight and absorbing the recoil - maybe slowing the soldier down more while firing, if he can still move, or even pushing him back. Watch out for that ledge!

I'd personally like to seem some form of turret replacement for the energy turret more in line with Ballistic's style. I already privately asked after 'in theme' turrets and vehicles before, but extending the turret idea further: Maybe Ballistics would feature some kind of heavy minigun pod with a dumb rpg launcher, and the infantry minigun is simply a detached varient of that?

2) Two additions to the Bloody Gore mutator - a slider to vary the corpse derez time, and a toggle for the form of derez - perhaps a burst of flame like the excellent (but buggy) Giblife mute. Or pulling them under the ground then dissapearing them after they move through the geometry, where it can't be seen. The floating matrix code breaks the mood a bit.

3) The airstrike and ion cannon superweapons sort of work with ballistics, but the redeemer isn't in the same style, IMHO. My suggestion for replacing the redeemer is a powerup "exosuit" with various armaments and a shield or armor value. From what I've seen, vehicle bots don't work well because they are limited to using the hovercraft moveclass with moving legs hanging off the body to fake walking. There was an old 2003 mod that treated power armor suits as a power up and swapped the player pawn with a new, larger player model that looked like a mech suit. Maybe you could pull that off.

4) To Runestorm on the assault/sniper rifle combo (different thread) - how about a laser, pulse laser, monoblade, or needler weapon? The bullet weapons are very nice, but variety is the spice of life!

Post edited by: Faceless, at: 2006/01/15 09:28
Author:  Bjossi [ Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
joseph77 wrote:
[quote author= 0% Also, for a super weapon there could be something like a target painter, or a Portable Howitzer, I know howitzers worked great in Remote Strike. another thing

How do you make this stuff up[/quote]

What do you mean? I just think this up, I don´t know how. :p

Btw, I was playing Onslaught yesterday with Ballistic Weapons, and I got to the conclusion that being inside a vehicle is more dangerous than being on foot.

I destroyed a Tank with 3 railgun shots, and another vehicle with one prim. shot from the DoubleBarreled Shotgun up-close. I think the damage the weapons deal to vehicles, power-nodes and power-cores should be scaled down dramatically.
Author:  RuneStorm [ Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Well, our armor system will be reviewed at some later stage, especially for other (related) projects. It is likely to include stuff like positional protection, quality levels and varied protection against different types of damage.
Minigun... mmmm... Must have... Must figure it out...
As for the flamethrower, picture that above line with the word "Flamethrower" instead of "Minigun"...
Our planner shard cannon would likely fire shards of a corroding green substance that is highly poisonous.
The problem with shard shaped projectiles (in real life of course) is that they are very unperdictable and, due to the air, they fly off course...
I guess those vehicle damages are a bit rediculous in many cases, but we have not yet tested it thouroughly enough with vehicles... As for BW vehicles, we want to do this, the only constraint is limited time to do them... A battle suit was one of our craxy plans, but I like the idea of making that sort of thing kind of an armor...:)
Varyetee??? Too much variety and you may not appreciate it...;)
A projector is not a 3d object, it is an unreal thing that projects a 2d picture onto a 3d object. (a decal). We use them for bullet holes, explosion scorches and those horrible blood marks...1
Author:  Bjossi [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
I wanted to mention idea about armor protecting different percentage based on what hit you, but I thought it wasn´t possible in UE2.5.

BW vehicles would be cool, perhaps adding a shuttle, a neutral one, so both teams can use it. So you never know if there are teammates coming or invaders until the shuttle gets close.

It can´t shoot, it´s purpose is to travel around a map and drop off teammates where they are needed.

Would be pretty nifty since I tend to get lost in Onslaught maps...alot. :p
Author:  Tolil [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
How bout one as large as a helix, with ammo and a mini armoury? Helix: http://www.ut2003hq.com/pafiledb2/pafil ... le&id=6026 and http://www.hqnfiles.com/ss/HelixESV21234.jpg

also
Bijossi said
Quote:
What do you mean? I just think this up, I don´t know how.

So u dont watch anything that gives u the idea? U just pull it out of your brain?

Post edited by: joseph77, at: 2006/01/17 13:55
Author:  Bjossi [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Not exactly, for the nanosuit idea I got the basic idea from Red Faction, but tweaked it to my liking.
Author:  RuneStorm [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Yes, it is possible for armor to protect you different depending on what hit you, BUT only with an improved armor. UT's armor is simple as hell and the BW one is not much improved in that direction. Our future armor will likely be much more sofistimocated...
Author:  Tolil [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Yeah you can only go as far as the code lets youy go. Hopefully we will see it.
Author:  Bjossi [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Cool, but it isn´t really possible to make armor protect different parts of the model is it?
Author:  RuneStorm [ Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Yes, we can make armor protect different areas. The only question is what type of mod do we need. Mutator gives it versatility and lets you run it with many other games and mutators, but has limited power. Gametype would give us access to much more of the code, but you would not be able to play with other gametypes. The mod in TC form is near absolute power. There is nothing we couldn't change, but thats Practically making a new game...
Author:  Redshift [ Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Mut (as opposed to full blown gametype) definitely has my vote! It should remain compatible with other community stuff (maps, models, weapons, muts...) so that everyone can create his own ultimate custom UT experience. Also, I'd rather see some more weapon models than fancy (and time consuming) gameplay tweaks etc...
Author:  Bjossi [ Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Gametype sounds ok, but would limit play ability quite alot since I do play many gametypes with Ballistic mutator.

Perhaps making the gametype support all maps available in the Maps folder? Would be a heavy list, at least for me.
Author:  Tolil [ Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
Lol, I dont think that will work. It can only have one set of rules "e.g. DM" If u play ONS with DM gametype ull get DM on an ONS map.
Author:  Bjossi [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
I see, but maybe a talented scripter can make some changes to have a single gametype have different rules for different maps.
Author:  Erika [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
I support TC/game types, since UT2004 maps are horribly incompatible with the game play that I think RS is trying to make. Angelheart’s maps seem to work okay, but aren’t really that made for playing. I’m thinking they could see if they can convert some of his maps over into the new game type and supply additional maps as well.
Author:  James [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
i think BW fitted assault maps would rock. you know, make the guns fit the map? that would be a dream come true. how about some machine pistols? i dont thing you got any uzis or any thing in there yet (besides the alien hand gun). a modified AK47 would rock SO bad A** too!

Post edited by: James, at: 2006/01/22 02:42
Author:  Bjossi [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:39 am ]
Post subject:  Some weapons ideas
I agree with Erika, the maps pretty much don´t fit with the gameplay. I always imagine a level mixed with rock and metal would fit, like an aging building constructed on a newly discovered planet to research fossil and the chemicals.

Just an example.

James, uzis would rock, and of course make some new style since this mod aims at semi-reality.
:)

Post edited by: bjossi, at: 2006/01/22 03:39
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