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| A new accuracy system. https://www.runestorm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=35233 |
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| Author: | Baklajan [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
Just typing this because I've never been able to understand how accuracy and chaos are calculated in BW. Here's a simple system, I hope it's mostly the same with what we have now. The purpose is to give some ground to speed penalties and systematize the whole thing. 1. Weapon Accuracy Weapon Accuracy solely depends on the weapon itself. It's a value showing how far a bullet or a projectile is likely to decline from the point where the gun is actually aimed at. 2. Bullet trajectory When a bullet leaves the barrel, it's directed exactly to the spot at which the barrel is aimed. However, the bullet is affected by the weapon accuracy factor, so it's likely to decline from that spot depending on the distance and the type of weapon. 3. Chaos Factor I: Shaking Hands Factor A bullet is always directed to the spot where the barrel is pointing, but who would ever guarantee that it's pointing exactly at the crosshair?! Nope. Since your hands are shaking, the barrel moves following a circular trajectory, which introduces some secondary inaccuracy. Unlike the weapon accuracy factor, this is partially controllable: when you are in the aiming mode, you can see all the movements of the barrel and use the iron sights to catch a lucky moment when the enemy gets exactly where the gun is pointing. 4. Chaos Factor II: Bobbing Weapon Factor When you are running, some left'n'right chaotic movements are added to the circular movement caused by shaking hands. It's harder to aim while moving though the aiming mode helps you to make up for that, at least partially. 5. Chaos Factor III: Jump/Fall Inaccuracy Whenever you are jumping or falling, a good deal of chaos is added to the previous two factors. The worst thing is that you can't aim while jumping or falling. 6. Aiming bonuses Here is the new idea. Depending on the type of the weapon, aiming mode can provide bonuses greater than just being able to track all the chaotic movements of the barrel. If a weapon has a stock, aiming it is likely to reduce the shaking hands factor (and the bobbing weapon factor, to a lesser degree). A small portative SMG while aimed is likely to have its bobbing weapon factor considerably reduced, though the shaking hands factor stays almost the same. Since aiming requires much concentration, various speed penalties may or may not be applied to the player in the aiming mode, depending on the weapon model. 7. Recoil Recoil isn't the same thing as inaccuracy. It's just a value showing how far away in a random direction the barrel declines after each shot. If you shoot short bursts or adjust your aim well after each shot, you'll be doing well. If not, your gun will jump around and hit everything but the enemy. So recoil is a factor completely separated from anything described above. It solely depends on the type of the weapon you are using. P.S. I'm still not sure how chaos works in BW 2.0. When you are aiming, the bullet is sure to go where the barrel points, though the barrel keeps swaying and bobbing. But when I'm not aiming, I always wonder if the bullet leaves the barrel following the actual barrel direction and the resulting chaos is only determined by the gun's swaying, or a random value is applied instead to simulate the chaos? |
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| Author: | the3stars [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
The recoil for things like the Sniper Rifle is a bit retarded. If you know how to handle a gun, as I am sure the guys in Unreal should do, then your barrel won't fly off in a 'random' direction. Its has always bothered me with the Sniper Rifle, the recoil chaos is pretty silly. Recoil is a split second thing, not something that slowly moves your sights in a random direction for two seconds. Therefore, recoil in something like the sniper rifle should move the barrel instantly to a new heading... one that can be predicted so skill can counter it. If you're sniping from a high vantage points and had knowledge of how the recoil would throw your aim, you could shoot a guy lower in your sights and let the recoil draw your aim up to someone who was higher. |
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| Author: | Tyster [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
I dunno, stars. I'm just trying to imagine this; you have your eye up to a scope of a powerful gun. I'd imagine my head would shake if I were to fire something like that. Has anyone actually fired a high-powered sniper? I heard about some people who get a ring-shaped mark around their eyes from the scope hitting them there when they fire. |
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| Author: | Captain Xavious [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
That ring mark generally results from holding the rifle incorrectly. 
But professional snipers don't have some magical technique that lets them use the recoil to aim for the next shot. A gun still has recoil, it will pull the gun upwards. It is impossible to fully know where the gun will point after firing, but if you hold the gun properly you can dampen the recoil and be able to predict how the gun will kick upwards. Snipers still need time to reacquire their target after firing. |
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| Author: | Kaboodles [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
What annoys me most about the sniper is that it decides to point itself down and to the left with even the most minute adjustment. Really irritating. |
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| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
Sounds pretty good Baklajan, would be a cool option to have a 2nd accuracy system for BW. just check it off and boom, game changes. |
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| Author: | Baklajan [ Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
I'm inclined to think that what I'm suggesting is almost the same thing we already have. The only major change is accuracy bonuses and speed penalties while in the aiming mode. I was hoping somebody would explain to me the current accuracy formulas. |
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| Author: | KylinRage [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
I always thought that sniper recoil was more pullback than go up... |
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| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
Be cool if it was set like CSS is or other games, where the gun doesn't really bobble or move much, that'd be fu*king awesome. |
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| Author: | DK [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
Yeah... like super-gluing your entire arm in place... |
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| Author: | Baklajan [ Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
According to my system, in aiming mode the sniper rifle should have its recoil effects reduced 'cause though recoil isn't completely gone, it's largely absorbed by the player's body with the help of the stock. On the other hand, you should get a considerable speed penalty while using the scope. |
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| Author: | Kaboodles [ Wed May 02, 2007 3:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
I believe accuracy should be determined by these factors: 1. Baklajan's 3 Chaos Factors listed above, only much faster and more random. When running, you can see the gun shaking about from your movements, but the movement is so slow it almost seems deliberate. 2. Baklajan's Weapon accuracy factor listed above. This would be determined by the damage of the weapon and its barrel length. The higher the damage and longer the barrel, the more accurate the weapon is. 3. Weapon mass - The more massive the weapon is, the less affected it should be by recoil. However, it would also increase increase the "Chaos" of the weapon. 3. Damage - Bigger bullets moving at higher speeds produce more recoil than smaller, slower bullets. (only applies to single mass shooting weapons, so Flamer, LG, RPG, Skriths, shotties etc. are not included). Higher damage would also increase the weapon's accuracy. 4. Stock - Stocks decrease a weapon's recoil and chaos, but only when still or moving slowly. While running, I imagine one would shoot from the hip, as the stock would only increase "chaos" and screw up your aim by jerking the gun around with your shoulder 5. Silencers - By adding more weight to the weapon, it decreases recoil while increasing its "Chaos". I still contend that it shouldn't affect damage in any way with the smaller, low velocity weapons (RS8, XK2, and XRS-10). I can accept it with the Battle Rifle, as that thing is quite a beast. 6. Sprinting - I don't believe weapons should be fire-able at all while sprinting. Under this system, the recoil from the AM67's high-velocity rounds would be offset by the weapon's weight. However, this weight would cause it be less stable all around. The RS8, on the other hand, is a rather light-weight weapon, but since its rounds are smaller and less powerful, recoil should not be as much of a problem as it is now with the gun (Snapping off two shots rapidly will cause the second shot to hit very high. This does not happen with the AM67, which contributes to the big gun's overpoweredness, IMO at least). Additionally, I find the current recoil system to be rather flawed. Going full-auto will guarantee you hitting the ceiling very soon, unless you fight it by aiming lower. However, by simply rapidly clicking your mouse button, you can fire at nearly the same rate as full-auto, but with drastically reduced recoil effects. |
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| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Wed May 02, 2007 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
Good system Kabdoodles. |
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| Author: | Baklajan [ Sat May 05, 2007 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
As it was revelead to me by a relative of mine who was in military service for some years, and discussed in an earlier thread, shooting from the hip only benefits from keeping the stock unfolded for short-stocked weapons. You can't hit anything from the hip if you haven't got a stock. |
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| Author: | Baklajan [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | A new accuracy system. |
Now I'm finally convinced that in BW the bullet trajectory is bound to the actual movements of the barrel both in aimed and non-aimed modes; judging by the whole look of it, accuracy in BW indeed works almost as described in my initial post, so in fact very few improvement over the existing system could be done. An idea suddenly dawned on me this morning, how to implement accuracy bonuses and speed penalties while aiming. If the accuracy so much depends on barrel movements, why not just reduce the shaking amplitude while in aiming mode at the expense of a lower movement speed? I think this is the best way to implement this kind of accuracy bonuses. The big huge general formula for deducing the amount of this bonus is extremely simple: the reduction of shaking amplitude is proportional to the reduction of player's speed. So if you know how big an accuracy bonus should be, you are sure to know how big the penalty should be, and vice versa. If this stuff is bound to a kind of a strict math formula, there won't be any balance issues. The slower you get, the better you shoot, and vice versa. The point which remains open for discussion is how big a bonus each gun should receive. I was able to make up at least three possible approaches: 1. Each gun receives a unique accuracy bonus/speed penalty according to its design and general use. An SMG is supposed to have a slight accuracy bonus/speed penalty, because you have to move fast enough even while aiming it and it has no stock... while an assault rifle is likely to get an average accuracy bonus/speed penalty, because assault rifles are a compromise between stability and mobility, and all of them have stocks; and a scoped rifle should receive a considerable accuracy bonus/speed penalty, because scoped rifles are all about accurate fire. 2. The player sets a custom 'movement speed while aiming' in the options. No matter what gun he aims, his speed is reduced to this value, and the shaking is reduced respectively. If you set your 'movement speed while aiming' to 50%, you get a fantastic accuracy, though make a perfect target yourself. If you set your 'movement speed while aiming' to 85%, you just get a minor accuracy bonus and suffer a minor speed penalty while aiming any gun. If this 'movement speed while aiming' is set to 100%, the player gets neither an accuracy bonus nor a speed penalty, he just gets the iron sights view. 3. Each gun becomes configurable, so that the player sets an unique 'movement speed while aiming' for every gun according to his tastes. If this 'movement speed while aiming' is set to 100%, the player gets neither an accuracy bonus nor a speed penalty, he just gets the iron sights view. 4. An optional combination of everything suggested above. |
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