Mr.UglyPants wrote:
Yeah, being superman in water is just kind of dumb.
... but logical!
| RuneStorm https://www.runestorm.com/forums/ |
|
| Ballistic tweaks https://www.runestorm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=36250 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | DK [ Fri May 18, 2007 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Aside from the ricocheting bullets I've mentioned somewhere in a previous thread, here's something I found really interesting... Just watched Mythbusters recently where they tested out how bullets react when they enter a body of water and when the gun is fired underwater... The results were quite cool - when a bullet hits the water at a certain angle, it actually gets destroyed before it can even penetrate the surface of the water. What's more, the bigger the caliber, the easier it gets destroyed (as proven by firing a Barrett and seeing its bullet explode into tiny bits on the surface of the water). As for firing guns underwater, the results were quite drastic. Handguns can be fired, but their bullets only travel an average of 3-4 feet and their impact is barely lethal (the Magnum begs to differ, though...). Plus, they can only be shot once while submerged underwater since the slide locks from a jammed empty cartridge. Shotguns are the most affected when fired underwater since their barrel/s can literally blow-up for no reason. So I was just wondering if these kinds of bullet physics can be implemented in BW... Methinks it would be really cool. |
|
| Author: | Captain Xavious [ Fri May 18, 2007 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Oy, this would be cool, but would you really want this to happen to you? Seems like an interesting feature, but like the destroyable weapons, not worth it in the end. I think bullets are affected somewhat by water in BW, I think its pretty much just the accuracy that is affected, but unsure. I just remember seeing something about it in the code somewhere, I think. |
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Fri May 18, 2007 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
That does sound pretty cool. If you don't mind could i add my own tweak that should be in? (you can tell me to delete it if you don't want it here) I know how we have the recoil and chaos slider as the same, but wouldn't it be better to have them separately? Because maybe some (myself maybe) would like to try having the current recoil (norm in BW2.0) but with less chaos, or maybe give us a more detailed option to choose how much chaos happens when moving (walking/running) moving the gun, combo of running and moving the gun, jumping and so on. I think the second option would be real awesome. Cause sometimes i've just found it silly how the M50 goes insane after firing 5 to 15 bullets and just becomes a lucky shot of a gun after that. Or another option would be to re evaluate all the guns as a whole, and see if some should have decreased chaos *cough* M50 *cough* and if others need more. |
|
| Author: | DK [ Fri May 18, 2007 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Yeah... I'd also like to have a re-evaluation of some (if not all) of the BW guns... Lots of tweaks to be had. |
|
| Author: | Bjossi [ Fri May 18, 2007 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Why is the bullet fired by the magnum more lethal than the others when fired underwater? As far as I know most guns that don't use electro-magnetic kick to launch the projectile, fire bullets to travel around the speed of sound or slightly supersonic. |
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Fri May 18, 2007 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
DK wrote: Yeah... I'd also like to have a re-evaluation of some (if not all) of the BW guns... Lots of tweaks to be had.
Yeah, like the magnum, for some reason, i find that the alt fire doesn't seem to fire 2 bullets, it shows on the ammo counter that you lost 2, but when you hit people and a 2 hit should kill, it doesn't unless the guy is already wounded, and the bullet mark on the wall is only 1, there's no second bullet just below or just above the first one... what gives? |
|
| Author: | Yokelassence [ Fri May 18, 2007 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
It is supposed to be one bullet that does double damage from what I hear. I have managed to get one hit kills with the Revolvers secondary fire, suggesting the secondary did activate. But you must remember it deliberately misfires. If you never use primary fire on the revolver, I find the secondary is more reliable and has a greater chance of firing hypothetical "two bullets" Also I am positive BW already provides two seperate sliders for recoil and chaos. Anyway going back to the original topic: While the idea sounds cool on paper dont you think it may become awfully annoying when you spot someone swimming around in a pool and suddently they are impervious to your shots? If you are not aware that the bullets explode when contacting water, you might waste 80% of your ammo before you realise whats going on, furthermore the swimmer may be able to fire some shots back at you. If you can launch an RPG underwater, that will be the tactic of the day. On the other hand you may invent pool parties for UT |
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Fri May 18, 2007 6:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Yeah, being superman in water is just kind of dumb. |
|
| Author: | DK [ Sat May 19, 2007 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Mr.UglyPants wrote: Yeah, being superman in water is just kind of dumb.
... but logical!
|
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Sun May 20, 2007 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
it just seems illogical, cause usually your swimming just below the surface when swimming in UT2k4. |
|
| Author: | Bjossi [ Sun May 20, 2007 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
DK wrote: ... and illogical!
Fixed. |
|
| Author: | Yokelassence [ Sun May 20, 2007 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Remember folks, more realism doesnt gauruntee more fun. (Otherwise real life would never be boring.) |
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Maybe have the bullets do less damage the lower you are in the water. |
|
| Author: | DK [ Tue May 22, 2007 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Any modification is better than having none, so I'm all for that idea, UP. |
|
| Author: | Bjossi [ Tue May 22, 2007 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Mr.UglyPants wrote: Maybe have the bullets do less damage the lower you are in the water.
That would be pretty logical, but the difference will be minimal because you need to go pretty deep to feel obvious pressure increase. |
|
| Author: | atc [ Tue May 22, 2007 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Not by the presure, but the much higher resitance of water, air opposes very little resistance compared to water |
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Tue May 22, 2007 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Thats the right reason atc. |
|
| Author: | Bjossi [ Tue May 22, 2007 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
atc wrote: Not by the presure, but the much higher resitance of water
That is the same thing. 
You guys don't have a clue how the universe works, better not say something is wrong if you can't hold water to support your claims. Of course there are more factors. But it is certainly pressure that gives the bullet a harder time to push molecules out of the way because there is less space for them to move around due to increased amount of molecules per square-centimeter. |
|
| Author: | Captain Xavious [ Tue May 22, 2007 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Actually what seemed to be the main problem (at least when Mythbusters tried it) was the initial impact of the bullet hitting the surface, it pretty much just shattered instantly, losing much of its momentum and slowing down to a crawl from the added resistance and lower momentum. A shotgun slug seemed to have some of the best luck shooting into water, though it still didn't get very far. In reality you pretty much just need a couple feet of water and you're protected pretty well from bullets. That just wouldn't work for a game, in my opinion. If damage was reduced in water (but not removed unless out of range of gun, which should be lessened by water too), I think it'd add a bit more realism to it without making it too realistic. |
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Everyone should develop water shields, since it seems that water is better than anything else. |
|
| Author: | Bjossi [ Tue May 22, 2007 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Captain Xavious wrote: Actually what seemed to be the main problem (at least when Mythbusters tried it) was the initial impact of the bullet hitting the surface, it pretty much just shattered instantly, losing much of its momentum and slowing down to a crawl from the added resistance and lower momentum.
But here we are assuming the bullet is fired while underwater. The impact will be similar but I think the bullet has a better chance to survive if it is fired within the same environment as it will travel through, there is no need to crash into a surface of water, it'll be in water as soon as you pull the trigger. And let's not forget that the angle you fire at a surface of water makes a lot of difference too. |
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Tue May 22, 2007 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Yeah, but i've seen the episode and they fire both above the water and in it and at a few different angles, all pretty much showing that if you fire a 50 caliber sniper rifle round into a pool, you won't need to worry on damaging the pool. |
|
| Author: | Bjossi [ Tue May 22, 2007 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
That pretty much speaks for itself, but I was wondering if the person underwater is in danger. |
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Tue May 22, 2007 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Well in real life, it seems more or less no unless he's on the surface (so Saving Private Ryan is right) or just below it. Then again, they didn't test it from more than a meter away, so i really haven't a clue, cause maybe the bullets do survive if they are fired from farther away. |
|
| Author: | Bjossi [ Tue May 22, 2007 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
They would survive pretty nicely if they travelled straight down I think, just like a diver makes kind of a bullet tip with the hands to dive into water smoothly. |
|
| Author: | ShadowBlade [ Wed May 23, 2007 3:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
our guns UW, do less damage, and have less range.. i think the accuracy might change too.. 
|
|
| Author: | Captain Xavious [ Wed May 23, 2007 6:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Ah, thats exactly as I thought. I always seemed pretty safe underwater when people shot at me, makes sense. Hah hah, you guys are making requests for features already added. 
What next, weapons being able to reload? 
Heh heh... you guys oughta look at the code... there's so much stuff in there that isn't even used yet. 
As for firing at water, a lower velocity would help prevent the bullet from shattering, so longer ranges could make hitting targets more possible. As for angle of entry, I'm not so sure how much that'd help. A diver's hands aren't as rigid, so they'd bend before they break. And they aren't moving at the rate bullets are. If you shoot at a lower angle, you might have better luck of it getting through the surface, but the bullet might even ricochet off the surface instead (don't quote me on that though, it's only my theory). As for guns firing from under water, I'm not sure how that'd work. I know the gun powder won't have as much of an effect. Air expands easier than water, so the pressure would really slow it down, and add to that the fact that bullets are designed to fly in air, so the water resistance is gonna kill the velocity further. Also, as someone (I believe DK) said, you'd only be able to fire one shot and the the casing for the shell would not be able to properly eject. You would be able to manually remove the brass, but as one could imagine, this would kill the effectiveness could thoroughly. |
|
| Author: | Mr.UglyPants [ Wed May 23, 2007 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Captain Xavious wrote: Hah hah, you guys are making requests for features already added.
That seems to happen alot. |
|
| Author: | Captain Xavious [ Wed May 23, 2007 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
I've noticed.
|
|
| Author: | Bjossi [ Wed May 23, 2007 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ballistic tweaks |
Might be because RS don't inform us of every feature in the mod. |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 6 hours |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|