Just a thought on balancing with the backpack weapons. Well you know how the flamethrower backpack once shot shoots upward than blows up, well shouldn't something along those lines be for the lightning gun and minigun, maybe even the railgun.

Like the railgun backpack once shot would short out or something, either the gun can't shot up to 100% damage or the thing just explodes, killing or harming the guy wearing it and some guys surrounding him.

The Lightning gun could once shot discharge all the lightning all around the player damaging him (more than likely killing him) and well as anything around him.

The backpack for the minigun i wouldn't have a clue how to figure out. Maybe when its shot it could start loosing ammo so your slowly constantly loosing ammo until say you get over a new ammo pack which fixes it. Or maybe it just explodes for no real reason, killing the user.

So a move of the G5, HVC, and XMV to superweapon slots.... that I could live with... but then what about the Loadout part? Just make them take up two Primary slots? (that means Primary and Secondary)

Whoa guys, easy. That came really close to a total flamewar.

Some of the weapons are definitely superweapon material (HVC and minigun). The others, like the G5, Rail gun, and flamer are strong, but I feel they are misused and abused. They're very powerful and easy to use, which is where the imbalance sets in.

The Rail gun, for instance, is intended to be an anti-vehicle weapon, correct? It's very powerful and can take out vehicles with one shot, but is just as effective against infantry. The only thing the R78 sniper has going for it is that it doesn't leave the blue trail, which isn't enough of advantage to overcome tohe Rail gun's immense power.

To repair the imbalance here, we can make the Rail gun more suited towards its anti-vehicle role. Vehicles are larger and move in more predictable patterns than infantry, so it won't hurt too much to change its functionality slightly to make it less effective against infantry, giving the R78 a reason to exist. Say we change the Rail gun so that it requires a charge-up like the Hellbender rear turret or A42 altfire. You'd have to charge it for, say 1 second for it to fire at all, where it does about R78-level damage. Charging it further increases damage, but also increases recoil and the odd pulsating shakiness in the gun. A fully-charged gun should blast you backwards 5 feet at least, with massive damage. One-hit tank killing damage. Holding the charge for too long (say 8 seconds) would reset the gun in order to prevent the gun from exploding or something.

In the case of the G5, it was originally intended as an anti-vehicle weapon, right? As is, it's not a particularly great anti-vehicle weapon (Rail gun beats it out totally), more suited for killing infantry at short or long range. It's also useless when unguided, so there's no reason not to have the laser just be on all the time. In addition, the damage values are just wrong. The blast radius is massive, able to seriously injure at a 6 foot radius, but does only a maximum of 200 damage, so even a direct hit might not kill an enemy.

What we could do is to have an unguided G5 rocket behave like an RPG-7 or something. High speed, ballistic trajectory, high penetrating power, and very high damage, for taking out tanks or tightly-grouped infantry. The blast radius would be smaller due to its more tightly-focused blast.

A laser-guided rocket should definitely not be as maneuverable as it is now. The current G5 can be launched in one direction and then guided to take out the a guy behind you in the the space of 10 feet, which is just ridiculous. There's no need to lead a target anymore, just make sure you're pointing the laser at his feet when the rocket hits. Not particularly hard. What it should do is move more slowly to conserve fuel and do less damage than an unguided rocket, but have a larger blast radius. The laser-guidance would be for faster-moving vehicles and infantry.

The G5 mortar is weird. In its current state, you lock on to someone and fire it while still pointed at the guy, but it somehow fires straight upwards. Kinda odd. What it should do is have the player lock on, then give him 2 or 3 seconds to launch it in whatever trajectory he chooses. He could choose to lob it high up to decrease for a surprise attack , or fire directly at the enemy to hit him as fast as possible, or somewhere in between. It moves slowly at first, to conserve fuel, but as it starts to turn towards the target, it ramps up the speed to slam him as hard as possible. It would and determine how it explodes based on what it's locked on to. If it's locked on to infantry, it explodes out for maximum blast radius. For vehicles, it tries for a direct hit and focuses the blast for maximum damage, but detonates for blast radius when it's close enough to do damage but impossible to get any closer.

To balance out the increased speed and damage, the G5 would have massive chaos when moving. It should strictly be a stationary-firing weapon. The laser would move around widely when moving, making it impossible to laser-guide on the move.

While the flamethrower was not mentioned, it's another one of these overpowered weapons. It's like the HVC in that it prevents the enemy from effectively fighting back while slowly killing him. The flamethrower has blinding flames, the HVC has its blinding electricity, blood spatters and gravity-defying effects. Even if you manage to kill the flamer, you're still vulnerable, being on fire, and more often than not die anyway from the flames. To make things worse, the fuel tank is huge. 150 ammo. A lot of continuous fire. If we were to simply cut the tank size down to 75 or 100, add a fire extinguisher to every health pack (which makes sense), and make the flames not last as long, it would work. In addition, flaming someone at point blank should hurt you a lot more than it already does.

To make this not a total nerf, you can give the flamethrower more functionality. You can give it two firemodes: One shoots gas like an aerosol, the other like a water hose. The primary aerosol fire would shoot a large cone of death in front of you with short range and no damage over time, while the hose would shoot it like a stream for longer range, damage over time, but more danger of splashback at close range. Alt-fire for aerosol would create fuel-air bombs, while the stream would douse a person or place with fuel.

That was a hueg post.

Nice idea for the RX220. I'd support that fully. If we do the changes to the Railgun though... looks like I'll be having to go make my own version specifically for my ShinRyuus fighting.... crap. Well, I support it too since I can go make a special ShinRyuu version. Need something for his ShockCannon replacement!

My idea on the G5:

1. 2x the speed of the rocket at LEAST
2. 1/2 the maneuverability at LEAST
3. mortar rocket needs to be exiting the G5 from the angle you aimed at least
4. mortar lockon just needs to have the thing in sight, but not directly aimed at like now (more a GTA:SA style I say for how it needs to work)
5. damage increase against vehicles, smaller explosion radius

@OCAdam, UglyPants. 1. Make G5, HVC, Minigun, Flamethrower, Railgun artifact weapons. Mind the yellow letter post behind the first linkie, not the initial one (if the page loads OK, you should see that specific post at the top of the screen) 2. Idea about exploding backpacks was suggested by me long before UP posted it in this thread

/EDIT/ To avoid further confusion, here's that post:

A few quick thoughts while working on my thesis:

I've just found a means to make all the super weapons fair no matter how overpowered they could possibly be.

I think that the super weapons could be made indestructible artifacts. For example, before a match the admin sets how many super weapons there will be spawned on the map, when they will start to spawn and what is the time interval between spawning. E.g. you could set the total amount of super weapons to one LG, one flamethrower and one minigun, spawning begins after the third minute of the match is over with a 60 sec interval between spawns. But just as well you could put in a single LG only or 5 LGs, 10 flamethrowers and 15 miniguns.

Super weapons do not take any slots, they're just something you can carry along with the rest of inventory. However, you can't carry more than one super weapon at a time. I'd make a special superweapon slot as far as Loadout is concerned.

Once a player picks up an LG or a minigun, he naturally becomes the number one target both for his annoyingly high firepower and the fact that his super weapon can eventually become yours. Once he's killed, his super weapon falls on the ground (instead of his active weapon, should it be something different) and stays there until taken by another player. I think it would be much better than LGs growing on trees or selectable in loadout or respawning countlessly at super weapon spawn points.

As long as the super weapons are only achievable through the defeat of their owners, no one can get a superweapon just by chance and without effort. By trying to get an LG you naturally take the risk of getting fried by the guy who has it.

The more powerful a superweapon is, the more people will be after its owner, so having an LG will mean that you'll have hard time surviving to keep it.

The super weapons are, according to my taste and common sense:
- LG
- Flamethrower (not overpowered, but spammy and being an easy-kill weapon)
- Minigun (however it's too clumsy, in certain situations it also becomes an easy-kill weapon with a tremendous firepower)
- Railgun (not much of a superweapon, but just too smart a gun for a player to be respawned every time with, and some guys who are good at sniping can really make a superweapon out of it)

It also would be cool if the backpacks stayed visible regardless of a player's current weapon, easily indicating those who have a superweapon in their inventory.

artifact weapons? WTF does that mean.

may i slab you with a wet fish for the heck of if ?

Why?



It was probably thought up before you even joined.

indestructible weapons for the players to fight other; either one of those is held by a player or it just lies on the ground, but can not vanish from the map entirely; if a player with an artifact weapon in inventory is killed, the latter falls onto the ground and stays there until somebody picks it up; the number, spawn times and types of artifact weapons are specified by the server admin; if you have more questions, please re-read my previous post

btw, you seem not to read posts up to the end, then you ask silly questions instead of taking your time to clarify things up on your own...

ok... i'm supposed to be nice and diplomatic here, so i will be

when we get to doing tha patch again after the crash, then we'll tweake those few.. after 2.0 was released, we tested in LAN matches, and realised that:

AM67 needs to be worse at range, and generate some more recoil.. that Flash also needs to hit the idiot in the face

HVC needs the most work.. So we tessted it after many tweaks.. it does less damage, overcharges on primary, and it's "grapsing" range decreased.. it worked alot better after that

D49 was made nastier

SRS900 was tweaked and improved with damage, etc to make it more effective..

after that, BX5 mines now don'yt recognise who planted them, and go off at EVERYONE!! that really helped Of course theres a delay before they are active, so you can escape before they go off..

more on this shit when the patch is done.....

AHH!!!! The bots already blind me enough as is.... Hehe....



Yay.... SRS is more useful!

Oh crap... BX-5 go on anyone.... well that solves the problem of having to notice if they are mine or not. I'll just pick them all up!

Edit: One thing, can you extend the Railgun and Sniper Rifle's distance they can shoot at? It's annoying how I can see my enemy... fire and.... nothing. No bullet hole, no blood and death, not even an aerial bullethole like UT does to tell you outta range.

ShadowBlade wrote:
AM67 needs to be worse at range, and generate some more recoil.. that Flash also needs to hit the idiot in the face

Let's say, AM67 should have the most stopping power among all the pistols, but the least range; also please consider cutting the damage by at least 25%; the Flash attack should be a tight conic ray of light, not a flash actually, for it would blind you as well and a ray wouldn't

ShadowBlade wrote:
HVC needs the most work.. So we tessted it after many tweaks.. it does less damage, overcharges on primary, and it's "grapsing" range decreased.. it worked alot better after that

Good to hear, but I'm still for a special 'artifact' weapon class, see above for details. HVC and G5 will be complained about until somebody makes it so that there can't be 30 people all running with HVC on the same map.

ShadowBlade wrote:
D49 was made nastier

Considering its long reload time, that sounds fair, however I hope it won't be turned into a one shot / one kill gun.

ShadowBlade wrote:
SRS900 was tweaked and improved with damage, etc to make it more effective..

Thumbs up

ShadowBlade wrote:
after that, BX5 mines now don'yt recognise who planted them, and go off at EVERYONE!! that really helped Of course theres a delay before they are active, so you can escape before they go off..

Agreed.

P.S. A small proposition considering the Tactical Shotgun: why not make equal the ray angle of the flashlight and the shot spread angle? Then the generally useless flashlight will become sorta laser sights for the shotgun, displaying the actual affection area so you always know if the enemy will be hit or not. It'll be extremely useful.

Their should be an option so they do recognize who planted them.

perhaps

I seriously love it when you say that.

If you're leaving the magazine size alone, you might also want to consider increased chaos and chaos decline time. Also definitely decrease damage to a more reasonable range, like 35-55 main damage, 80-100 head, and 15-30 limb.



My biggest problem with the gun was the total blindness that comes from getting hit by one. The blood spatters in particular made it really hard to see anything, and should really go away considering the type of weapon the HVC is.

Would you also be able to give it a movement penalty? You seem to be able to run at full speed with this, which is bad considering the weapon has literally no chaos effects.



How so? The only thing the D49 really needs is more balance between its firemodes. The doubleshot has the same recoil recovery as the single, so you can pump out lead at an even higher rate than before, making single fairly useless.

What I would really like to see is for the doubleshot to be made into a separate firemode to minimize misfires. It would also help for partial reloads where you only have 3 or 4 bullets left. Depending on the firemode, you'd reload different chambers. Single shot would have the chambers reloaded in a continuous loop for 4 uninterrupted shots, while doubleshot would have 2 groups of 2 bullets with 2 empty chambers between them, for 2 full doubleshots. Just move the red dot sight to alt-fire

Also, please make the red dot sight into a full-beam laser sight. The dot thing is currently useless when doubled



I don't get why people are complaining that it's a weak weapon or whatever. It's a great gun. High damage, almost unnoticeable recoil (just ignore the recoil animation and look solely at where the bullets are landing), and low chaos while moving. You can use it fairly effectively at both run-and-gun and sniping. My only beef with it are its small magazines (24 would be a better number) and silly silencer mechanics (a silencer should decrease recoil, not increase it, especially if you're going to make it decrease damage).



I think that's definitely a step in the right direction, though I think you can go a little farther. For instance, the mines are currently easier to blow up with your feet than a bullet. You only need to run within a couple of feet of one to blow up, but you need a direct hit with a weapon to blast one safely. I'd prefer it if you had to step directly on the mine (or its little feet, in the case of the spring mine) to detonate it, as that's how landmines should work anyway.

God no! I loved how the laser wasn't a full laser! But yeah, fix it where you can have dual lasers.... Although I like the extreme zoom from the laser in single wield mode! But.... wouldn't you need a scope?

I'll say that it needs to be not a full laser! It's cooler that way.