heh, it's a bit ironic that Kaboodles, the one that fighted for balance in BW weapons, is entering in a overpowered army

heheh, just kidding.

Dude, that is amazing irony.

do people in the U.S. army rape?
yes they do: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oew-marshall30jan30,0,510658.story
it says: "2,947 reports of sexual assaults in the military in 2006"
almost 3000 cases of sexual assaults that HAS been reported within the army itself.
lets not forget there will be a additional amount that has not been reported.
and those were only within the army itself.
what do they do outside the army when send out to Iraq and Afghanistan?

does the U.S. army torture?
yes they do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib ... oner_abuse
unfortunately i couldn't find any numbers to show you, but lets not forget that imprisonment itself is a form of torture.
this means the U.S. government allows for the torture of over 2 million American citizen.

does the U.S. army kill?
yes they do... A LOT
a estimated 4.278 U.S. soldiers and 318 other coalition soldiers have died in Iraq.
while the civilian casualties have been estimated from a minimum of 91.060 casualties to a maximum of 1.033.000 casualties.
lets look at the ratios.
with the minimum estimated civilian casualties: 91.060/4596=19,812... this means for every coalition casualty, 19-20 civilians have died because of the war.
with the maximum estimated civilian casualties: 1.033.000/4596=224,760 this means for every coalition casualty, 224-225 civilians have died because of the war.
see the numbers here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

if this really is moral... than i'll commit suicide.

Dude, its a army, that's what armies do. Get over it.

It sucks but thats how the world work, how its always worked, the Romans had armies that pillaged, raped and burned and enslaved, we pretty much have the same, except intead of torches they (really we but screw it i'm Canadian) use missiles.

Just think, if the Allied Nations didn't have any armed services, the Nazi political party could have killed Millions more in their view of whats right!

And out of how many, over 150 thousand people? 2947, or 3000, for that matter, is a tiny percentage of the whole.


does the U.S. army kill?
yes they do... A LOT
a estimated 4.278 U.S. soldiers and 318 other coalition soldiers have died in Iraq.
[/quote]
if this really is moral... than i'll commit suicide.
[/quote]

Morality is subjective.

Yes many armies did cruel acts unfortunately, but that's not the case of only one army, pretty much armies did that, but armies is the only dissuasion force we got.
Humans since the beginning of their existence did wars, torture and crap of that kind.

It was much, much worse hundreds/thousands of years ago than it is now. History is a powerful tool to learn from one's mistakes. Obama is doing a great job in correcting the torturous mess Bush made in his 8 years as president.

because war happened often before doesn't mean it is alright.
it doesn't mean such evil should be allowed.
we shouldn't allow evil like this to happen... that is if you agree war is evil.

I'll make this short and quick.
MMM, I would rather a world where armies, war, and destruction existed than a world where 'peace and equality' prevailed eternally because a world containing such concepts on such a vast scale is:

1) Unrealistic
2) Disgusting because war is eternal and so are militaries, patriotism, nationalism, and CULTURE. Eternal Peace equates to forgetting everything the founders of each country created, forgetting the culture, forgetting everything and abandoning these things. Such actions would create stagnation and as humans, stagnation in the world of progress is intolerable.
Never in my entire life would I betray my country to attain peace. I would however, serve my country with boundless loyalty.

Obviously. But no matter how hard you try, you're not going to get a 100% out of it.


fourth one.
morality is not subjective. senseless murder of thousands to millions IS immoral.
[/quote]

Some people think it is immoral when women get an abortion, some don't (including me). Hitler didn't see it as immoral to clean the world of jews, if anything he thought he was doing the world a favor. These differing views on morality from person to person, and society to society, does in a highly simplified way hint at morality being subjective. At least that is my take on it.

How are we supposed to not allow Evil to happen, if not by force?

Human kind is an paranoid, selfish race, and justifiably so. Countries worked hard to become what they are and will not give way of its beliefs and way of life because another country says it will stop wars.

Mankind fights itself. It always has fought, and it always will fight.

Also, that first link you provided about Rape was not exclusive to the US Army. There are five branches of military in the US and 3000 is a very, very small percentage. You will probably find a larger percentage in the civilian population.

Morality IS subjective. The Nazis killed Jewish and Gypsy populations because THEY thought it was right. I guess US forces killing the Nazis wasn't justified then? Maybe we should have left them to kill the rest off if asking nicely to stop didn't work?

Our nations are made by wars
The world should be a right balance of peace and war just like that
[br][img width=300 height=300]../../files/public/1240882117_674_FT72716_clejrp6e.jpg[/img]

Also it's impossible to did that in an other manner, or be ready to loose our personal desires ...

The German Wehrmacht has occupied France in World War II. It is lead by power hungry Adolf Hitler, who has personally caused the death of over 6 million Jewish people. Japan has just bombed Pearl Harbor while pretending to negotiate peace. If you think the correct course of action is to back down and not escalate to warfare, you're completely wrong and I call your morals into question.

Did you really think the US Army gets involved in wars to rape, tourture, and kill civillians? Do not answer that question, because your opinion is clearly biased and irrational.

well Sgt. Kelly... the US army gets involved in wars to "liberate" people and other "heroic" things.
but they have only been fed the typical "we are the good guys" propaganda.
but in the end they destroy the lives of million in name of some lies... almost as if they all have schizophrenia... but it's really the brainwashing propaganda and nationalism.

and well about hitler and his view of morality:
he distorted morality to something he wanted.
pretty much the same way religious people try to distort science to prove that god exists and so on.
that these kind of people distorted the "understanding" of morality doesn't mean it is subjective.
like i said to Bjossi... i could kill you all and just call it a moral action... now, would you agree that killing you all is moral? just because i say so?


i would consider things like "rising from the dead" (like christians believe) to be unrealistic.
war isn't eternal... nothing is.
i consider ditching things like nationalism and culture to be a good thing.
these irrational rules and fairytales corrupt people, distorting their sense of morality and reality and allowing the murder of millions to happen over and over.
i really must inform you that there is no country.
basically there is just a criminal organisation (the state) that has marked a territory within it will do what it wants with the people who live there.
and by the way... forgetting about the country, culture and the state would not create stagnation, why would it?
without the theft that tax is, and without the all the rules the economy can function freely and more productively.

seems like the dog likes his collar and leash. too bad he doesn't know he's a slave.

and can the emo-hippies please stop moaning bull**** about some kind of stupid "ying and yang".
you know how hard it is to fight just one part human corruption (like the state).
fighting multiple (like: the state, culture, religion, nationalism) is just impossible.

Kaboodles... if you're reading this please send a reply or PM me.

Please people.. lets not get too CRAZY HERE!!..

Sure war is full of filthy things, but there are certain hounerable reasons for fighting in a war, that does not mean one becomes a rapist or murdered..

I would hardly call it murder to wipe out the nazi's for their killing of millions of innocent jewish people, just for being different..

And you can't blame the isrealies for protecting their land..

The saying 'All is fair in love and war' has some truth to it. It is fair to kill for the greater good, however war is usually not for the greater good... But the people who fight and die for their country, how can one say that that is not noble?, they would never die for their leaders, but their country, thats how you get people to join an army..

Anyway good luck to you kaboodles, may you save many lives, and clamp down on rapists(Those individuals are filthy pigs, they would do that even if they weren't in a war..), and may you be spared sufferring and pain(unlikely as that is)..

On another note, MMM. You can't be so eccentric about life.. Sure states are made to control the populous, but soon all of that will come to an end, wether humanity likes it or not..

In the perfect world(hopefully soon to come) their will be no goverments, no armies, no rules, only a system that gives each individual the same power, no organization should ever exist, and each person's survival is determined by how lazy they are..

Also, if the world population were to be cut down to at least 3 billion, everyone would have it alot easier, sorry but not all human life is precious when they do nothing for the betterment of others, or the earth. They are parasites..

Now can we calm down here, and wish Kaboodles luck in whatever path he choses, because after all one cannot tell a person what they have to learn for themselves..

Good luck Kab!!

Maybe it's just me, but I think it would be a more viable option to research and evolve technology for long distance space travelling than killing 3 billion people to make room for new individuals.

MMM:
You would ditch your own culture? You have no loyalty towards the country of your birth? Disgusting!

We weill NOT tolerate personal attacks on members. Stop this discussion now or the thread is getting locked. Further personal attacks on board memebers will result in more severe steps of administration.

Sorry Xavious, I went too far.

lets keep this simple: war is bad.
no matter how you look at it or what you say about it.
it cannot be justified, because it is pure evil.

see, we're fighting a war here.
so let's all stop talking and have peace!

war? here? wtf? ...?
...
lets see what the dictionary has to say.
...
ok here it is:"the waging of armed conflict against an enemy"
guess i don't have to say more.

What does this have to do with Kaboodles joining up??.....Nothing.

MMM, you know, not all wars need physical damage.
The Cold War was an example. it was a ideological war. the two opponents( USA and Soviet Union) don't fought against themselves directly. yet it was called a War.

But let's all forget about this discussion. like Wup said, this has nothing to do with Kaboodles joining the army.

Cheers, Glos.
Lets all cheer Kab on, come on, he's been a long time member of this forums- and he's making a weapon mod as well! He's contributing alot...

the BW community will miss you, since you're the best balancing guy here!
though the experience with real guns might help in future BW weapons!

And to add to that, Kab's gonna be a medic- a combat medic at that.
You never know when he might be the one (after his term in the army) to save your skin after something bad happens- such as a fire, car crash, etc. You never know if its his face you're looking into hoping that you'll live as he administers first aid. Combat Medics get some of the best training possible, sometimes better than what civvies get because this stuff is life or death- he's gotta watch where his position is too, otherwise he's just as buggered. So, he's gotta be quick, efficient and good at what he does. The better he is, the more chance the fireteam can get out of the hotspot.
I'd be hella-gracious if I got my head saved by a former combat medic.

This thread is very close to getting locked. Lucky for you people I have been too busy to check up here, and that we have liberal moderators. I would have killed it a long time ago...

I read the posts here with some interest, and wonder how many of you have actually seen what war does to a country, or if anyone here has actually even been in a gun fight, or near one
You people want to know how cruel and inhuman people can be, go vist central Africa, countries like the DRC or the Sudan, Nigeria etc. etc.
War is not pretty, think about it....its purpose is to destroy people that are not on your side!!!!

And yes, I come from a country destroyed by war, have lived through that war, have seen a few gun fights. I have visted other African countries destroyed by war. I live in a country taken over by a "previously disadvantaged" government, which seems to be making such a mess of things, that gun fights, vehicle hi-jackings, violent armed robberies are "normal" and we have to learn to avoid such potential situations. We are almost at the top of the list of most murders in a country per year!!

I take my hat off to Kaboodles, who is willing to join the army of a country he is not even yet a citizen of, who is willing to help people and protect those at home who just wish for a simple peaceful life.

Good luck Kaboodles, our thoughts are with you. Make sure you check back here whenever you can (I happen to know they have pretty good internet facilities in the army)

The rest of you, please stop making comments from the side lines and be thankful for those who risk their lives to protect us all. Without them, most of us wouldn't exist. It is human nature to fight and try to control everything, you cannot get away from that, it is built in to your very being. Deal with it.

Bump

Wow, this thread got heated while I was away.

Just posting to say that I'm shipping off to BCT today, and that I'll be gone until Christmas.

Bye guys. It's been fun!