Good day, mates. I've been following these forums for quite a while. I even made some really very long posts long ago, though I was mostly in read only mode for the last few months. When BW 2.0 Gold was out, I decided to refrain from ungrounded criticism.

Well, I've played the great thing long enough so far. I have to put in a word.

First of all, BW 2.0 is simply awesome So don't expect me to set off on a fault-finding rampage.

The only thing that I ever hated about BW and still hate is its controls system.

Why the hell with some weapons Secondary Fire toggles on the laser pointer, and with some weapons the same function is toggled with the Weapon Special function? The same goes to the silencers, as well. Why am I bound to use the Alt Fire button to place single shots from the double shotgun instead of switching between firing modes?

I can configure my controls the way I please, but still... I can't bind different weapon features to certain weapon functions. I.e. I can't bind the Toggle Laser Pointer feature to the Weapon Special or Alt Fire function for all the weapons - some of them will still use Alt Fire, and some - Weapon Special. It's just the way the guns are made.

Now, the aiming mode is in, at last! I hope it will develop into a more sophisticated and important function in BW 2.1. But at the same time, this amazing new feature demands introducing some fundamental changes into the weapon control system. Let me explain.

As of now, if I'm not mistaken, aiming (using sights) just keeps the weapons from jerking and bobbing like hell when you're firing long bursts. It makes a HUGE difference. So guys would naturally prefer using sights all the time, because it imposes no penalty on them and gives a big advantage. You can fire like mad from an M50 while using sights, and 40-50% bullets are sure to hit the target. Without aiming, most bullets will eventually hit the sky, unless you fire short accurate bursts. With aiming, the problem is gone.

This leads to a huge disbalance. The fix would be as simple as a shotgun shell. Just make a player speed penalty for those who are in aming mode, like in most shooters which have aiming! Each weapon can have its own Speed Penalty While Aiming, as well as the Aiming Accuracy Bonus could vary from gun to gun.

For example, while aiming an M50, you both get an average speed penalty and a considerable accuracy/stability bonus. When aiming an SMG, you get a slight speed penalty but a lesser accuracy bonus. When aiming from a machinegun, you get a big speed penalty and a slight accuracy bonus. Just because trying to aim a machinegun while holding it against your chest and running at the same time is no good. You have to walk rather slowly if you want to fire a machinegun that way. (Please keep in mind that fixing the machinegun on the ground is quite another function, and I'm talking of aiming)

So, when aiming a.k.a. using sights becomes a balanced function, it'll be a must for everyone to combine both aimed and unaimed fire in all kinds of situations in order to overcome the enemy. Anyone who has played Battlefield 1942, 2 or 2142 knows that both ways have advantages and disatvantages of their own.

Guess what I'm aiming at. The Use Sights function requires quick operation, so you could switch between aimed and unaimed fire ten times a second. So it will end up being bound to the Right Mouse Button.

The Left Mouse button is used for Primary Fire.

Alt Fire, Weapons Special, Switch Firing Mode - the whole jolly company will have to reside somewhere on the keyboard, as most of them do by now.

Finding the proper key for toggling the laser pointer or silencer for that particular weapon that you're using will become a real nuisance - considering that the same weapon feature often uses different weapon functions depending on the weapon itself.

Let's think logically. We use A, S, W, D for movement. R is usually Reload, Z, X, and C are usually misc controls like jumping and what not.

We still have Q, E, F available (and in fact, most of us have been using them in our control configs since the day one)

Now listen. What I propose is just grouping different weapon features in such a way that you can use all the possible options with all the weapons with the help of Q, E and F buttons, or any other three keys of your choice, just AS EFFECTIVELY AS IF YOU WERE USING THE MOUSE BUTTONS.

Here's the deal:

The E button. It can be used for melee and special attacks like grenade launcher, etc. After binding Primary Fire to E and playing for some hours with it, I've came up with a conclusion that pressing E too long quite naturally blocks you from pressing D, thus making you less 'tactically flexible'. In other words, you can't stafe right - so strafing left becomes as well useless.

But when it comes to using the M50 grenade launcher or the melee attacks, E is quite perfect. I'm a mediocre BW player and my skills leave much to be desired, but I was able to smash the enemies with the shotgun barrel or the Skrith-bayonette-thingie with a few hits on the E button without feeling any discomfort. The same applies to the grenade launcher, the awe-inspiring Flash attack of the assault pistol, etc. etc. Unlike the automatic bullet / energy fire, this type of attack requires only a few occasional hits on the E key, so your index finger won't be to busy with pressing it.

My personal experience tells me that the E key is perfect for melee and special attacks, whatever you think

What other weapon features could be associated with the E key? Second comes the laser pointer. The thing is simple: BW neither has nor shows any tendency to acquire in future any weapons which have both laser pointer and a melee attack. So it's natural to assign it to the same weapon function.

So here we have the new weapon function, called Melee/Special/Laser Sights. It's bound by default to the E key or whatever one you might like, but it won't conflict with the rest of the weapon functions, no matter how hard you try.

Next comes the F button. Let's make it Toggle Fire Mode (actually I think most people already use F in that way). The next thing I'm about to bring to use will probably raise strong objection. I propose using the Toggle Fire Mode button as the Switch Primary/Alt Fire button. Please don't beat me with the shotgun barrel Let me explain.

Any weapon, despite of its nature, usually follows one of the two following patterns: either it has to choose between different fire modes (single, burst, full-auto) or it has Primary and Alternative fire. Most conventional ballistic weapons have to switch between fire modes. Some hypothetical laser/energy guns (that might get into BW some day) follow the same pattern as well - single/auto. The rest switch just between two completely different ways of fire - Lightning Gun is the only specimen so far, but Skrith rifle could use some neat alternative fire, too. (Special attacks like the grenade launcher and melee attacks can both be found with any kind of weapon and have a separate weapon function of their own, presumably bound to the E button)

The thing is, none of the weapons has to choose both between alt/primary and single/burst/auto. That means that we can assign both to the same weapon function which uses the same key. Since both mouse buttons are occupied with Fire and Aim, I think it's the best way to settle with the rest. At least it's better than keeping a separate key for firing Alt Fire immediately... well, who of you uses the both fire modes of the Lightning gun immediately? I might guess none. The primary fire is the most useful, while at long range the alt fire is preferable. Both can be switched between rather than assigned to two different buttons.

The only disadvantage of this is that you won't be unable to have a gun which has both Primary and Alt fire, and a few fire modes for both. For example, you can't give different firing modes to the primary and alt fire of the Lightning gun, but I doubt anyone would bother to create anything of the kind. Guns are made for fighting, and too many firing modes usually stands in the way of quick operation.

So, the second new weapon function is called Toggle Fire Mode, is bound by default to the F button, and toggles between Fire Modes or Alt/Primary fire. If we have to introduce a new terminology for this system, we might want to get rid of the Alt/Primary fire notion at all. Let's call it all Toggle Fire Mode.

At last, the Q button and a weapon function which is called Weapon Attachment. It's used for silencers, M5 camera, tactical flashlights, and attacheable bayonettes, if any appear in BW. None of these can occur in the same weapon, so all of them should be assigned to the same function. And yes, you can happily use these along with laser pointers, grenade launchers and melee attacks, which are served to the E button.

What do we get with such a system?

1. Right Mouse Button is reserved for aiming, which will become on of the important BW features and requires the quickest operation possible.

2. All of the weapon features are assigned to three weapon functions using three keys. If I'm not mistaken, it's called "ass-slappin' ergonomics" in English.

3. Every time you press a button, you won't have to remember which will happen with this particular weapon. Laser sights are always E, silencers are always Q, special attacks are always E, toggle fire mode is always F, melee attacks are always E, everything ever is always Q.

P.S. If you prefer the traditional control system, why not make an option to switch between the new and the old one?

P.P.S.
I haven't decided on the place-the-machinegun-on-the-ground function. It can both use the 'Q' (attachment) and 'E' (Special Attack) button, since machineguns usually lack specials. Though a machinegun can have some sort of an attachment (attacheable scope? LOL), probably it's better to bind that to 'E'? Anyway, it's used quite frequently, and E is the most convenient keyboard key of the three to hit quickly in a middle of a gunfight.

tl;dr most of it... got to the Iron Sights bit and I do have to admit that the current Iron Sights system does make some guns way imbalanced.

For example: the Minigun. I NEVER used the Minigun's deploy mode because it's so much better to use iron sights and just fire in short bursts (I get 10 consecutive frags this way before I even need to reload).

So I have to agree with you about the movement speed reduction while using Iron Sights... But to be quite honest, I think it would be best if some weapons didn't have the Iron Sights function (like Machineguns and Miniguns, since they already have the Deploy function).

OR you can have the Stamina Meter deplete when you use Iron Sights on very heavy weaponry while running around (I mean, c'mon, who wouldn't tire out from carrying a fat-ass Minigun on their chest!?).

Well, AIM and Mount can be made the same function: either you mount it and aim or fire holding the gun against your belly

EDIT: Here are two pics for you to consider...

Pic #1 - Three keys and two mouse buttons host all the possible weapon functions:



Pic #2 - The same deal shown as a tab



If you can't understand what's the stuff in the pics, please carefully read post #1.

Damn, thats a lot of info. You defintaly spent quite a lot of time writing this up. And overall, pretty helpful for any new comers.

The iron sights seems balanced enough to me, you still get quite a bit of recoil, you just actually see where the gun is pointing...

Plus the time it takes to bring it out balances it, and the fact you can't use it while running or jumping (used a lot by those less concerned with tactical practices and more concerned with quick kill shots ) so you got balance right there.

While I can't say I agree with any of this you say (controls are quite perfect for me), it would be nice to somehow configure where some of the things go for the sake of customization. There are currently 5 fire buttons for the guns (more or less):

Pri. Fire
Alt. Fire
Spec. Func. 1
Spec. Func. 2
Fire Mode Select

If you can just select what each feature of the gun falls under which button, I think that'd be good. Maybe select them by overall groups sort of like configuring the loadout weapons available, so you can select all lasers at once for example, then change them around for individual ones.

No offense is meant at this, but I think using fire mode select to decide if you fire pri. or alt. fire is just rather silly. I guess I can see why you might want that, but I like the alt. fire button to be there.

You didn't read his post did you?

I agree about the part where you mention the laser aiming activation keys. I'm still scratching my head why alt. fire triggers them one one weapon and special fire on others.

Nope You caught me.

no such a thing as alternative fire[/u] in BW It's just a weapon function in control of all sorts of things, from melee attacks to silencers I've devoted enough lines to the problem in the original post. It was also mentioned that what I'm proposing is just another option to configure BW weapons, swappable with the default system, if you like it better. Probably you didn't read the first post carefully enough.

The thing is that there are only three buttons on the keyboard available for quick weapon operation: Q, E, F + R usually associated with Reload. We have to distribute all the functions between those three, in such a way that nothing conflicts. See the tab.

I've done some very thoroughful testing and now I'm 99% sure that what I'm putting forward is the best from the point of ergonomics. The only gun that really has some sort of "Alt Fire" is the lightning gun, and I'm able to switch between two in almost no time.

Aiming is DAMN disbalanced. It should NOT take much time to aim a gun (the way we have it now, it behaves rather weird... you have to keep the aim key pressed longer than it actually takes the gun to get aimed), but you should receive speed penalties equal to the advantage you get, otherwise everyone will be running with their guns aimed.



Has already been asked in the forum and the devs' answer was: No, too lazy...

No, in your playstyle there are only three buttons available for quick weapon operation.

And I want alt. fire to stay the way it is, remember that the mod is still in development and we have no idea what weapons are coming next. And I want to be able to alternate fire as easily as it is now.

God dang... wide-screen anyone?

---

First, what you say is all based on YOUR PLAYSTYLE, YOUR CONTROLS.
Lemme show you mine:
Q- switch weapon fire
WASD- movement
E- use
R- reload
F- throw weapon
Z- dual wield
X- special function 1
Caps Lock- iron sights
Tab- Translocator/BW2.0 UI
Ctrl- sprinting
Second, I think you never played with the weapons tab of the settings in UT, did you? In there, you can flip the primary and secondary fires around. So... Single blast can be primary and Double Blast being secondary. Makes for some really good stuff there. Maybe have the weapons fire switcher able to change the fire keys on the fly then with shotguns? That is my only thing I can say to half-agree with you.

Third, the iron sights and running...yeah. Uh... we could do that idea. But I'd better still be able to use iron-sights on ALL my guns, even machineguns (or at least the M925, which has an ironsight for it, and is visible (XMV-850 doesn't have it I know, or one I've seen... I might just be blind to it)).

Interesting thread. I agree at least with the part where it comes to the inconsitency between the button assignments of lasers and silencers. But the rest...

It seems like you put a lot of effort into thinking this stuff up and writing it down. However, it seems like you forgot to consider some important facts:
1. The other BW and UT keys which require quick and uncomplicated access as well, like the translocator button, sprint and dual wielding. Where would you put those? Y, X, C? A bit too hard if you need to reach them quick, and imagine how you'd have to bend your fingers when pressing sprint and jump while running in a certain direction. (Edit: Ok, totally forgot about tab and capslock, I never use them in any game since I accidentally alt-tabbed out of one every time I wanted to perform a certain action, which taught me to avoid this area of the keyboard during play)
2. What about the melee weapons? Primary fire performs quick slashes, alt fire is a strong blow and special function blocks, all 3 need quick access while ironsight for a blade would be rather stupid, wouldn't it? Here it would be quite important to have an altfire button and it would be incredibly stupid to switch between different kinds of slashes via a fire mode toggle. Ok, you mentioned a melee button that could handle a melee weapon's secondary attack as well as striking your enemy with your gun barrel, but it still doesn't cover every altfire problem.

The reason why certain features have to be activated via altfire is simple: Most UT users have altfire bound to the right mouse button, it is the way UT works and they don't want to change their keys everytime they play a non-BW gametype, plain and simple. Because of that fact, the altfire button is bound to the second most useful function for each specific weapon (the most useful function is of course firing the thing), that's why sniper weapons have zoom on altfire instead of ironsights-button only, it needs to be available as fast as possible and what would fit better than the big button right next to the fire button? There you have it.
Don't forget that BW is still a mutator and not a TC, its controls shouldn't break the standard UT ones. That's why I for one have Q still bound to the translocator (the BW translocator button which skips the weapon selection menu is on left alt for me). From my experience, if you want to make good use of the many keys neccessary for BW, a 5-button mouse is the way to go.

If someone is interested, my personal key-config looks like this:

- UT Controls: movement: W A S D, Xloc: Q, weapon scrolling: Mousewheel, use: big mouse thumb button, fire+altfire: mouse l+r, jump: Space, crouch: LShift, walk: LCtrl, teamchat: R
- additional BW controls: sprint: E (as one usually sprints forward the right strafe key isn't really missing), reload: Mousewheel-click, ironsight: small mouse thumb button, toggle firemodes: F, special function: C, special function 2: X, dual wielding: Y, loadout menu: grey minus

Works great for me and I don't have to change every keymapping if I want to play some regular UT or other mods (exept Chaos UT which requires lots of custom keybinds as well). I recently thought about re-mapping use to E, so I have the sprint button on the mouse and therefore full movement control. What keeps me from doing it is that I am so used to pressing the thumb button to enter a vehicle that the change might be very disturbing at first.

I'd love to see someone manage to run and use ironsights at the same time; because you can't.

Looks like nobody pays any attention to the fact that any weapon function can be bound to any button. Q, E and F are just examples. Alt. fire can still have a separate button for it, along with the Switch Fire mode button. The thing is that the less keys you use, the better it is. Those three could be Z, X, C.


Why do you think I didn't try to play around with the weapons tab? Surely I did. But why then don't we bind single fire for pistols to the right mouse button? Why not use a single-barrel shotgun instead of the double one if you prefer single shots? Why the hell miniguns don't have burst fire assigned to the right mouse button while full auto is bound to the left one? Both are useful...


Fine, but you can still use the same keys with my system, just not so many. It's not the keys themselves I'm talking about, but the grouping of functions; and not my personal preferences. Somebody would do fine with F1, F2, F3, it doesn't matter. And I repeat, you can always have a separate button for alt fire if you want to.


Yeah, that's right, but there's no such a thing as a full-blown Alt Fire in BW! If you skimmed through my tab in post #3, you'd see that sniper rifles and all the guns of the kind have their scope bound to aim, i.e. what's supposed to be bound to right mouse button. The only gun that really has primary and alt fire is the Lightning gun. The rest is just a chaos of random functions. What's useful to you isn't as useful to me.


You can't beat it unless you group weapon features into non-conflicting weapon function groups, like I did.



A good point, but you forget that "Alt Fire" is just a bunch of different functions in BW, unlike the UT2004. As for the keys, each chooses for himself. But one fact's always true: the fewer, the better. Z,X,C. U,L,P. F9, F4, F11. Or the Caps Lock. I'm not going to consult you on this


I'm not talking about the melee weapons. Anyway, they could have Block instead of Aim (right mouse button still), standard attack on left mouse button and two specials on 'Attach' a.k.a. Weapon Special I and 'Melee/Special' a.k.a. Weapon Special II.

======

As for the keys customization, BW can have a separate controls config tab with movement keys included, so you can have a totally separate config for BW.

The big problem is that BW now uses too many weapon control keys, though it could do fine just with a few. Tell me - is switching on/off laser sights important enough to bind it to the right mouse button? Or the silencer, huh? Or M50 camera, or any other trinket? I highly doubt it. So all this stuff can be bound to a couple of keys on the keyboard.

Melee attacks, grenade launcher attacks and all sort of special attacks occur only occasionally. So binding them to the right mouse button, or so-called alt-fire, isn't the best option as well.

But stop, you gave me a fine idea. Why not add an extra key to my 3-key system? Let's call it "The Most Useful Function" - just like the way we have it now. Melee attack for Skrith gun, alt fire for Lightning gun and all. It can be bound to the right mouse button for those who like it better, but it's supposed to be a complementary function. If one wants to use a straight, ergonomical system, he plays with the three key system. If he's used to the old system, he uses The Most Useful Function key as well. Anyway, it won't make more keys than we use now.

Since aiming has come to BW, the mod won't stay the way it used to before anymore. I'm just trying to be a bit far-sighted. Even in 2.0, the iron sights are a feature close to a cheat. Though they are extremely glitchy and since you have to hold the button for some five seconds to aim, you might want to do away without them. It's not balance though: if you are aiming, you pwn everybody, but aiming is a pain in the ass. Pwnage is no good while I can't say anything on the latter point.

Some day iron sights will get smooth and smart, so you'll have to bind them to the right mouse button. Those who do now and change their config preferences, they get a real advantage in the game.

No matter how you configure the rest of the functions, one thing is still true: the less keys you use, the better you fight. If you want to have an extra key for the hypothetical alt-fire, feel free to. If you prefer a simpler system (though different from the classical UT), you can use three keys only. Both ways can happily co-exist. And yes, you'll always be able to toggle laser sights with one key and laser sights with the other.

And please, no more Q-E-F criticism. When I write Q-E-F, read it as 'your-favourite-three-keys'. It's not about the keys themselves, after all. As I have already said, somebody could do fine with F1, F2 and F3.

IMO, it's pointless too talk about 'the good old UT control system', because aiming breaks it wide open. You can't just stick that function up your ass and forget about it, because the future versions of BW will be all about it. The sad thing is that aiming shatters the old principles, but you (and I as well) have to submit.

P.S. I'd be most glad to hear what the devs themselves think. Especially on the point that you have to use a dozen of keys to bring up the silencer, depending on the gun you use.

i'll just say that i can agree with the need for standardization of laser use and such....the rest as before mentioned is really just space filler

also...increased attention to aiming usually does decrease innacurracy...thats just common sence (ironsights are fine the way they are)

But you can't standartize the sights and all unless you standartize the weapon functions. That's why something has to be done about weapon function grouping. And please restrain from calling my observations space filler just because you don't have sufficient patience to read the whole post and (what is most important) analyse it, rather than trying to catch its sense by skimming through other people's comments.


Right you are fellow, but that doesn't help the iron sights to cease being pure pwnage. They're too fine. I put out bots at the Godlike difficulty if I use them all the time, while bots beat me mercilessly at the Hard difficulty if I play without them.



After re-reading my original post for a few times (that took a good while) I think that there's a much less complicated way to settle the things.

Look here. I propose making two variants of weapon configuration and a checkbox to choose between the Old Style Controls and the New Style Controls.

OLD STYLE CONTROLS

FIRE - primary fire

AIM - use iron sights or sniper scope

RELOAD - reload, just reload

WEAPON SPECIAL A - virtually the same thing as the classical Secondary Fire in this config - comprises melee attacks with shotguns and rifles, grenade launcher for M50, toggle laser sights for pistols, and secondary fire modes for Lightning gun, assault pistol (blinding flash) and Skrith sidearm (accumulated blast). Also, just as we have it now, single shots from double barelled guns go here. As it was perfectly put before, "The Most Useful Weapon Function" (c)

WEAPON SPECIAL B - silencers, tactical flashlight, toggle stock for fifty-9, place M50 camera and all sorts of attacheable gadgets like bayonettes, scope (should there be a detachable scope), and what not.

TOGGLE FIRE MODE - switches between Single/Burst/Auto

Now, an example of keyboard mapping using OCAdam's favourite pattern:

Keyboard:

Q - toggle fire mode between Single/Burst/Auto
WASD- movement
E - use
R - reload
F - throw weapon
Z - dual wield
X - Weapon Special A - silencers, detachable scopes, bayonettes, tactical flashlights and all
Caps Lock - aiming a.k.a. iron sights
Tab - Translocator/BW2.0 UI
Ctrl - sprinting

Mouse:

Left Button - Fire

Right Button - Weapon Special B, in the Old Style working the same as Secondary Fire in BW2.0: melee attacks, grenade launcher, laser sights, single shot for double barelled guns and all...

You get your UT classic controls right, don't you?

Now, if you want to play New Style, you just activate a single checkbox, then all the weapon functions undergo some changes until the checkbox is unchecked again:

NEW STYLE CONTROLS

FIRE - primary fire

AIM - use iron sights or sniper scope

RELOAD - reload, just reload

WEAPON SPECIAL A - in the New Style, Weapon Special A only hosts the following functions: melee with rifles and shotguns, secondary attacks for assault pistol (flash) and Skrith Sidearm (accumulated Blast), grenade launcher for M50, and, of course, toggles on the laser sights. See post #1 for details.

WEAPON SPECIAL B - in the New Style, works the same as in the Old Style: silencers, tactical flashlight, toggle stock for fifty-9, place M50 camera and all sorts of attacheable gadgets like bayonettes, scopers (should there be a detachable scope), and what not.

TOGGLE FIRE MODE - In the New Style switches between Single/Burst/Auto for conventional ballistic weapons and energy rifles AND switches between primary and secondary fire for exotic weapons like the Lightning gun and the Flamethrower. Also, it switches between Single/Double modes for the double barelled shotgun and the Cobra revolver.

Here's my mapping using the New Style:

Keyboard

WASD - movement
Q - Weapon Special B (silencers, tactical flashlight, place M50 camera and all)
E - Weapon Special A (melee with rifles, special attacks for pistols, grenade launcher for M50, toggle laser sights)
F - Toggles between Single/Burst/Auto for most guns, also toggles between Primary/Secondary for Lightning Gun and Flamethrower and other exotic guns, also toggles between single/dual for Cobra and M290.

Mouse:

Left Button - Fire
Right Button - Aim



Six functions for six buttons. One checkbox to choose between the two systems. Laser sights / Silencer standartization for both. What could be better?

I mostly play Chaos UT and BW2.0, don't like classical UT much. I'd rather use logical grouping of functions rather than the chaotical one we now have in BW2.0. It has its own advantages, but my variant is better for novices and more logically straight. With some people, logics prevail over instincts. Why not add an alternative mapping system that is worth a single checkbox instead of reading one and a thousand of posts asking for adding completely custom function mapping for every gun?

Have we ever considered per weapon configurations? It kinda makes sense to me because different people have different ideas of what different operations are most importatnt for different weapons. Since there is a limited number of twitch keys (qwe), why not let each user decide what each key does for each gun. Now, to make this newb-friendly, there could be the default system implemented, but there could be a button to hit in the mutator config menu to get into some nitty gritty stuff, where you set each function for each weapon to a key. For example, I use my middle mouse for secondary fire. I might want it to act as secondary fire fire for the 290 shotty (single fire instead of double fire), but the same buttoncould bring up my ironsights when I have the ar selected.

Duh. There were a couple threads. The devs feel too lazy to make per-weapon configuration. Though it would solve all the problems, it's a terrible pain in the ass to achieve that.

The system described above is hundred times easier to implement, Old Style for UT2004 veterans and the New Style for anyone who prefers logics to the instint.

I'd like to point out now that what you mistake for laziness is actually that they have more important things to work on rather than some tweaks here and there. Trust me, they are not lazy.

Look here: everybody's using the word 'lazy' in the sense 'have more important stuff to do' here: http://runestorm.za.net/pl/forum/forum_ ... .php?32133

My English isn't that good, but I can still catch shades of meaning. Just as anybody else here. I meant exactly the thing you are trying to point at. When you have a lot of urgent work to do, won't you feel 'lazy' to help out your girlfriend tweaking her computer for a few hours?

Captain Xavious, I beg of you to stop playing the devs' tame ferret; please don't speak on their behalf or as if knowing their final decision beforehand.

What I propose is just a fast way to help a lot of people out. I got the idea after receiving lots of complaints from the people playing on my BW server here in Elektrostal's lan network about "f**kingly crappy weapon control" in BW. You see, it's not only me who has been getting annoyed for too a long time.

What Xavious is saying is true, we happen to be a part of the RS team. We aren't developers but we are staff here and therefore we chat often with the guys privately.

You don't happen do be a part of the RS team, so please don't judge on things to be judged by the team. You're just forum staff, you don't make things for BW, or am I mistaken?

I'm sure the devs will help me out and add an option for more or less sane controls mapping. You are just trying to show off or what? Can't understand your reasons for flaming here just because you two (out of a thousand people playing BW) don't like something.


EDIT: It would be wise of you just to delete the previous six messages including this one up to my last big post to stop flaming.

As you read down, you'll see that my ideas change. So as you get near the bottom of this post, you'll see my ideas and opinions shaping up. So the replies here near the top are "outdated".

This leads to a huge disbalance. The fix would be as simple as a shotgun shell. Just make a player speed penalty for those who are in aming mode, like in most shooters which have aiming! Each weapon can have its own Speed Penalty While Aiming, as well as the Aiming Accuracy Bonus could vary from gun to gun.
[/quote]
Guess what I'm aiming at. The Use Sights function requires quick operation, so you could switch between aimed and unaimed fire ten times a second. So it will end up being bound to the Right Mouse Button.
[/quote]
Finding the proper key for toggling the laser pointer or silencer for that particular weapon that you're using will become a real nuisance - considering that the same weapon feature often uses different weapon functions depending on the weapon itself.
[/quote]
We still have Q, E, F available (and in fact, most of us have been using them in our control configs since the day one)
[/quote]
But when it comes to using the M50 grenade launcher or the melee attacks, E is quite perfect. I'm a mediocre BW player and my skills leave much to be desired, but I was able to smash the enemies with the shotgun barrel or the Skrith-bayonette-thingie with a few hits on the E button without feeling any discomfort. The same applies to the grenade launcher, the awe-inspiring Flash attack of the assault pistol, etc. etc. Unlike the automatic bullet / energy fire, this type of attack requires only a few occasional hits on the E key, so your index finger won't be to busy with pressing it.
[/quote]
So here we have the new weapon function, called Melee/Special/Laser Sights. It's bound by default to the E key or whatever one you might like, but it won't conflict with the rest of the weapon functions, no matter how hard you try.
[/quote]
The thing is, none of the weapons has to choose both between alt/primary and single/burst/auto. That means that we can assign both to the same weapon function which uses the same key. Since both mouse buttons are occupied with Fire and Aim, I think it's the best way to settle with the rest. At least it's better than keeping a separate key for firing Alt Fire immediately... well, who of you uses the both fire modes of the Lightning gun immediately? I might guess none. The primary fire is the most useful, while at long range the alt fire is preferable. Both can be switched between rather than assigned to two different buttons.
[/quote]
At last, the Q button and a weapon function which is called Weapon Attachment. It's used for silencers, M5 camera, tactical flashlights, and attacheable bayonettes, if any appear in BW. None of these can occur in the same weapon, so all of them should be assigned to the same function. And yes, you can happily use these along with laser pointers, grenade launchers and melee attacks, which are served to the E button.
[/quote]

I like this idea.
This may put an end to the Special Fire, now that fire modes can be toggled. Bring it on!

Can't do that, since there is no flaming going on here.

They are not just "forum staff", they are considered part of the team. They may not be RS, but they are part of the team, and they are in contact with the Devs and myself. They


I'm sure they will post here about your ideas

See my previous long post in this thread, posted here before the little flame war broke out. I thought I put it quite clear - two mapping systems, the same six functions, one checkbox to choose between the two styles.

If you are more used to the good old style of UT2004, you can always use old style. Weapon Special B acts as the standard BW secondary fire than. It's just "the most useful weapon function" regardless of any logics. With the double shotgun, it is single fire. Then also laser sights of the pistols, melee attack of the skrith rifle. That's quite natural if you prefer this style, despite the lack of logics here.

If you use the right mouse button for aiming, new style is for you. I don't want to double-post a lot of things here, but you can find the details above in the thread. New style is much more logical, though might seem quite alien to veteran UT2004 players.

I'm a former gamedev for GSC Gaming World, and has been involved in the production of a Q3/UT clone, an arena shooter Firestarter. I was a concept writer, most of the game features were the fruit of my imagination... though, of course, we had to cut a lot due to budget and time limits.

One thing I can tell you for sure, which I was told many times: when it comes to controls, design and in-game management - if you can't develop a sophisticated solution to cater for all the players, then make two or three cheap options which might satisfy everyone. It's just like "Invert Mouse" option - some people use it one way, others - vice versa. That's also why almost every shooter has two buttons assignable to a single weapon function, like UT2004 itself... That's also why in some games like Oblivion you are free to switch between 1st and 3rd person view - most people fight in 1st person, but those few (not a few actually) who are used to fighting in 3rd person feel sick when they try to fight in 1st. Personally I can't understand how a guy can fight in 3rd person without seeing precisely where his blows go, but no matter - such people exist, and they perfectly fight in 3rd person...


I think it'll take too much time to develop individual configuration system for each gun. So I look upon it as a highly improbable thing. That's why I had to spend a lot of time inventing a cheaper and simpler option to comlement the old style function grouping, which is my opinion is awful. Just for me, of course, and many players I know. Others are happy with it. So I'd rather hope for a simple alternative than an individual mapping option... Xavious was right pointing out that it'll take a lot of time to develop a new menu system.


It's just your gaming habits that show up here. Thousands of people play Battlefield 2 and 2142. If you played those, you'd see that when you aim a gun, most part of the screen is obscured. It's really much worse than in BW, so I have no problem at all using the iron sights in BW. If you find the iron sights' FOV annoying, you might ask the developers to change the gun positioning in such a way that it's drawn some millimeters closer to the camera... also, the front sight for all guns could be made a bit more user friendly, they're too thick in my opinion. The fact that it's a bit awkward too see the whole gun in the middle of the screen instead of the floor and objects is a good way to justify that a certain speed penalty is imposed upon the player when he's aiming. The more bulky a gun is, the slower you move while aiming. It's still an idea to develop, but a flexible penalty and bonus system will make BW much more fun. Not like Battlefield 2, where you get the same bonus and the same penalty while aiming any gun in the game. (Surprisingly enough, iron sights proved so helpful to me for shooting bots at Godlike that I feel like a leet player while using them, though in fact my skills are rather crappy...)


People have to change over time, which is a very unpleasant necessity. I can understand you quite perfectly, but after you kill a dozen enemies with the help of the iron sights, you'll probably get used to it. Also remember that if a speed penalty is imposed on a player using the sights, their usage will be severely limited. Iron sights will become useless in dinamic situations, but when you are crawling corridors or trying to dispatch a sniper or some guy running amock with a lightning gun, iron sights will be perfect. Due to the game's nature, it's mostly to be played in unaimed mode. But aiming is a great option that enhances the game's tactics and offers certain advantages in certain circumstances. You know, I'd eventually get mad if I were forced to aim all the time, and I'm really forced to because it gives me a really big advantage and no penalty. So it looks like we have some common interest in limiting the iron sights usage while retaining many of the benefits thereof. (BTW, sometimes five seconds of aiming once in two minutes of gameplay save your life, that's why I personally prefer to have this function bound to the right mouse button)


That's why I'd like to see an option to switch between the two ways of weapon function grouping. I don't believe we'll see an individual key mapping option for each gun until 2010.


When I say Q-E-F, I just mean "your favourite three keys", that's all. As for left lean and right, that's plain kitsch - fashionable, cool and totally useless. BW and UT aren't a sneak-and-run shooter, so peeping around the corner would be much worse than using the same few seconds to move, shoot and pick up ammo and bonuses. So lean left and right will surely deserve the < and > buttons on my keyboard.

The flashlight... I've been mentioning it here and there for a thousand times, but everybody's forgetting about the tactical flashlight attached to the MRS138 shotgun. How very sad. Well, it deserves a key to be activated with. Since the shotgun has a melee attack associated with Weapon Special A (Alt. Fire), the flashlight activation goes to Weapon Special B. I don't see any problem here.


I just bound my alt. fire to the E button to see how effective different attacks will be from the point of keyboard ergonomics if I don't use the right mouse button for them. Because I want to use it for aiming, again it's just a matter of playing style.

It turned out that if the attack consists of several rapid hits on the E key, I can easily kill enemies with the rifles' melee attack or with the grenade launcher... that's because I don't have to press the special attack button for too long, so it doesn't keep me from using the strafe controls. It only takes a few stabs or a single grenade to kill somebody. But keyboard keys suck when it comes to prolonged alt fire like the secondary fire of the Lightning gun, because the strafe keys get blocked while you are firing. That's why in my alternative controls system, alt fire is merely a switch between two firing modes. Both controls systems have a right to exist. And there won't be much agreement among the players, it all depends on what other games they play along with BW.


Just look at the tab in my second post in this thread. Though my alternative controls system isn't quite to your liking, judging by the tab you'll see that it allows many guns to have a melee attack without having to invent an extra key to activate it. The rule is simple: laser sights are mostly found with pistols and light rifles which don't look like if they could be used in melee, while melee capability is mostly found with brutal big guns like shotguns, which won't ever need laser sights. For example, the double-barreled shotgun could have a melee attack as Weapon Special A, should the single shot become a Toggle Fire Mode option. Also keep in mind that if a gun has a grenade launcher, it's generally useless for melee due to obvious design issues. So grenade attacks can share the same weapon function and the same key with laser sights and melee attacks. I don't really think that adding a melee capability to every gun is that cool, but many guns like all the shotguns, the flamethrower and almost anything good for thwacking people will surely benefit from adding a melee option to it. Once I thought of adding brass-knuckles as a melee weapon to the game, which would give the player an option to punch people with the left hand while holding a pistol in the right hand. But since most pistols have extra functions both for Weapon Special A and Weapon Special B, I dropped the idea 'cause it would require an extra key to activate.


See above - I think it's awfully logical. Moreover, it'll give a chance for adding melee to some guns that didn't have it before. If you want more guns with a melee option, you'll have to invent something, more or less convenient. That's just my proposition, I hope you'll be able to make up a better one.


You really lack patience in reading long boring nerdy posts, don't you? (No offence is meant here). I've repeated it for quite a many times in the previous posts that there isn't a gun in BW as of now, which would have both a number of fire modes and a secondary fire. Neither I think there will be any. Either it switches between single/burst/auto, either it it has primary and alternative fire. NOTE: I regard melee and grenade attacks with rifles as "Special Attacks", not as "secondary fire", because these special attacks can be easily performed with a quick tap on some key on the keyboard (even the accumulated blast of the Skrith sidearm), and normal secondary fire requires a mouse button to operate, because you have to keep the button pressed for some moments, which is a no go with the keyboard keys: you are sure to get your strafe controls unavailable while pressing something with you index finger for more than half a second. BTW, I also hate the idea of switching between Single/Burst/Auto/Secondary Single/Secondary Burst/Secondary Auto with a single key, but secondary and primary fire are usually found with exotic and energy guns, while Single/Burst/Auto are typical of conventional ballistic weapons. Both almost never coincide in a single gun.


You have some really good point here. The only drawback is that you wouldn't have enough time to perform a quick melee attack with a gun - you'd be forced to do some clicks on the right mouse button to choose the melee attack. Spending 0.25-0.3 secs on it is OK for fighting at a distance, but it won't do for melee. So probably melee will have to reside at a keyboard key.

P.S. I'm very glad you had the patience to read my posts and express some constructive, well argumented agreement/disagremeent with my points. Thank you.

Now that I can read it a bit more broken up, I think this would be a good thing to have down the road, but it would be quite an undertaking to get set up for the guns to use it.

Though I'm perfectly happy with the current setup, I can see reason to your suggestions.

Also, I'm sorry if anything I may have said offended you, I was having a stressful day and might've taken it out on you in the process...

That's also why almost every shooter has two buttons assignable to a single weapon function, like UT2004 itself... That's also why in some games like Oblivion you are free to switch between 1st and 3rd person view - most people fight in 1st person, but those few (not a few actually) who are used to fighting in 3rd person feel sick when they try to fight in 1st. Personally I can't understand how a guy can fight in 3rd person without seeing precisely where his blows go, but no matter - such people exist, and they perfectly fight in 3rd person...
[/quote]
If you find the iron sights' FOV annoying, you might ask the developers to change the gun positioning in such a way that it's drawn some millimeters closer to the camera... also, the front sight for all guns could be made a bit more user friendly, they're too thick in my opinion. The fact that it's a bit awkward too see the whole gun in the middle of the screen instead of the floor and objects is a good way to justify that a certain speed penalty is imposed upon the player when he's aiming.
[/quote]
You know, I'd eventually get mad if I were forced to aim all the time, and I'm really forced to because it gives me a really big advantage and no penalty. So it looks like we have some common interest in limiting the iron sights usage while retaining many of the benefits thereof.
[/quote]
As for left lean and right, that's plain kitsch - fashionable, cool and totally useless. BW and UT aren't a sneak-and-run shooter, so peeping around the corner would be much worse than using the same few seconds to move, shoot and pick up ammo and bonuses.
[/quote]
I don't really think that adding a melee capability to every gun is that cool, but many guns like all the shotguns, the flamethrower and almost anything good for thwacking people will surely benefit from adding a melee option to it.
[/quote]
You really lack patience in reading long boring nerdy posts, don't you? (No offence is meant here).
[/quote]
P.S. I'm very glad you had the patience to read my posts and express some constructive, well argumented agreement/disagremeent with my points. Thank you.
[/quote]

No problem, I felt that I was being unfair to you for judging your ideas from what other people say, so I just read and replied to the whole thing myself.

I'm inclined to think I got some indeed The main thing I've learned is that the players pay very little attention to the game's plot as a story, but are much more concerned about in-game details that help to support the plot. I mean, nobody cares much about the story upon which the game is set until this story finds some manifestation in the form of actual game features that the player can "touch".

E.g., Doom 3 has a very simple plot, but after playing a bit the atmosphere makes you believe in this cheap story so you enjoy the game. F.E.A.R. doesn't introduce many innovations, the setting is rather dull, but the few guns and the few enemies are so well-positioned in a perfectly designed game world that you get really involved with the game. Prey might seem rather a plain shooter, but the camerawork, the fact that all the original features are a must to solve the game's puzzles rather than just some grotesque additions, the well-orchestrated scenes produce a motivation to play it till the end. The greatest shooters are awfully simple in their nature if we take a deeper look, but it's the style, the feel and the coherence that make them really fine games.

The second rule is coherence, consistensy and validy from the smallest of details to whole project outline. Everything should be motivated. If you the character can pick mushrooms but can't eat them, that's just as bad as if you screwed up AI or forgot to add a weapon or two. Any game is all about the details.

The third rule is to make it sure to give any detail credibility. I mean, anything in the game should make enough sense to make the player plunge into the game's atmosphere. A good example is the amazing style and design of BW guns. Though BW has some very minor balance issues and probably lacks some logics, the whole bunch of weapons fits perfectly into UT's background, even though those are designed for another universe. That's why I'm so critical about the useless stock for Fifty-9: even though it looks cool, as long as it doesn't affect the gameplay strong enough that the player can feel it, that becomes a redundant feature that breaks the atmosphere.

Silencers that do nothing but change the weapon sound (they don't bring in any silence, actually) also spoil the overall feel you get while playing BW. Though if the silencers had a bit more serious impact on the gameplay, they'd contribute a lot to the atmosphere. Details like collapsible stocks, attachable silencers, upgrades, laser sights might be a minor feature as seen by the developers, but a great one as seen by the player. As long as these little toys not only are in, but also affect the gameplay in a way (and that is the most important thing).


Ya, that would be great.


BW already has speed penalties for wielding different types of guns, and it's not optional. Though even when you are running around the place with a minigun in your hands, the character speed is still high enough not to annoy the player. What I'm proposing isn't "realistic iron sights". Should they be realistic, you'd be limited only to slow walk while aiming. I propose a 40% speed penalty for aiming sniper rifles and machineguns, 20-30% for assault rifles (M50 is likely to have a 25% speed penalty for aiming), and 10-20% for pistols and SMG's. That won't annoy the player too much, but at least an aiming person will make an easier target for the enemies, so there will be some balance between aimed and unaimed fire, and both will be equally motivated.

If you are experiencing trouble at using sights because your eyesight is impaired in some way, then you'll only benefit from this. Since aiming, as of now, gives a huge advantage to everybody, and you can not aim, you are likely to get killed more often because of the benefits that the others get. If they get a speed penalty while aiming, you are more likely to get better chances against them, at least the fight will be balanced.

Speed penalties are to keep away any possibility for 'aiming abuse', but I don't mean that your speed should be affected as severely as in the "realistic" shooters that have aiming.

BTW, it seems like I'm able to hit something a mile away while aiming an XRS-10, and when I fire it unaimed, it behaves just like a machine pistol should behave. I don't think that chaos and recoil should be completely done away with while aiming, what do you think?


I thought it was a sick joke of yours because you either have an eyesight good enough to see a monitor fifteen inches away from your nose, even if you can't see anything farther, or you can't see the monitor at all. Anything you see on the screen is just the same distance away from your eyes even if it's a mile away from the eyes of your character, or am I getting mad? I also thought you might have your field of view damaged in some way so you can't see some certain parts of the screen... but the gun is in the center of the screen while aiming, if you can't see the center of the screen than how you are able to kill things when you fire unaimed? Looks like I'm getting more and more confused. Perhaps because we haven't got such a term as legal blindness in my country... our law doesn't give a precise definition of blindness. Or is it a metaphor of some sort completely beyond my understanding?


One of my favourites actually. Though it didn't have too many functions for the controls to become a problem.


I just think that when some guns have a melee capability while others do not, it adds to the guns' uniqueness and helps to keep the atmosphere - even if it's semi-realism, it should have at least 50% of realism by all means. If you were able to swing all the guns (even an XRS-10 with silencer attached), that probably would ruin some of the atmosphere because it doesn't make sense though it might be fun. I think it's ok to swing a flamethrower, but hitting people with the fragile lightning gun or a machinegun, which is too heavy to swing, is just nonsense. That's just my personal feeling.

Probably there could be such a thing as stock swing with most of the rifles, but I don't know what kind of animation it would require. But if it's possible, you have my full support. Melee attack with the stock really makes sense.


I vote NO for the pistols, machineguns and the lightning gun and YES for the rest. Though you can always use your off hand to punch enemies with brass knuckles while wielding a pistol.


You must be exaggerating about two hours, it took me only twenty minutes to write it and another twenty minutes to read it twice and edit. Though maybe it's because my work is associated with reading and writing so it became my habit to type as fast as I read and read as fast as I type. Also my native language is Russian, and it usually takes four times as many words in Russian to express anything as in English. I haven't got used to English so far, so my written thought still flows the way it does in my native language. Anyway, you have my apologies for flooding.


I think I was able to make up a controls system based on a blend between your and my ideas. Sounds like this:



1. Let's assume the aiming key is not a mouse button. Let's say, Q.

2. Let's assume the reload function stays at R.

3. Let's assume that once you hit it, you automatically get into aiming mode and stay so until you press it again. I mean you shouldn't have to press the key for a few seconds as we have it so far to get aimed, because keeping Q or E or anything else pressed for some moments blocks your A and D strafe controls.

4. Let's assume that the melee attack has a separate key for it - for the sake of having a laser rifle with primary and secondary fire, and a bayonette attack. Just because we might want one Let's say E.

5. Let's assume that Toggle Fire Mode is still a separate function not to be confused with secondary fire. Let's say F.

6. Let's assume that Secondary Fire is still an independent function residing at the Right Mouse Button, but read below...

7. Those guns which have collapsible stocks, barrel extensions, laser sights and silencers, and all sorts of attaches and complementary gadgets like detachable bayonettes and sniper scopes, use the Secondary Fire a.k.a. Right Mouse Button to scroll between Fire, Attach/Detach Silencer, Toggle Laser Sights On/Off and functions alike. The left mouse button just activates the selected function. If the Fire function is selected, then the gun fires. If Toggle Laser Sigts, then the laser sights are turned on and off when you click left mouse button. This should be the rule even for the guns that have only a silencer or only laser sights to prevent possible player claims like "Why the hell the pistol X toggles the laser sight on with the right mouse button while the pistol Y activates the silencer and the pistol Z uses the right mouse button to scroll between the two available options!!" I know it's illogical to toggle between Fire and Silencer first, then activate the silencer with the left mouse button and then toggle back to Fire instead of just pressing the right mouse button once, but anyway it won't be an undertaking and won't waste too much time... and we'll finally be able to put an end to the sore point about laser sights / silencer key desynchronization.

8. Guns which don't have any attaches or upgrades use the Secondary Fire a.k.a Right Mouse Button for performing an alternative distant attack. It may be a special attack like the M50 grenade or an alternative firing mode like the Lightning gun's aimed arc. Machineguns use the right mouse button for mounting.

9. Single/Dual shot switch becomes part of the Toggle Fire Mode switch just for the sake of logics and to free the right mouse button for the double shotgun should it grow a one-shot flak launcher some day just the way the M50 has its grenade launcher.

10. Now, the biggest innovation. The Toggle Fire Mode key may affect only the primary fire, but it may as well affect the secondary fire, too! For example, if you switch between different modes of fire with an M50 in your hands, your choice doesn't affect the grenade launcher though Single/Burst/Auto works fine for the primary fire.

But the same Toggle Fire Mode trigger could choose between different kinds of fuel for the flamethrower. If we choose Napalm, the primary fire is spray fire and the secondary fire is spill fuel. If we choose Sludge, the primary fire is disperse it in the air and the secondary fire is produce sticky poisonous puddles on the floor. If we choose Liquid Nitrogen, the primary fire is slowly freeze your enemy with a spray attack and the secondary fire is fire big blobs that freeze somebody instantly on impact.

The idea is that you can get any number of firing modes with a simple combination of Secondary Fire and Toggle Fire mode.

The Lightning gun can have the Toggle Fire Mode switch to adjust voltage both for primary and secondary fire. The higher it is, the more damage the gun deals, but firing is more wasterful at higher settings. I mean, 10 energy points for 10 points of damage per second, but 20 energy points for 15 points of damage per second and 30 points of energy for 23 points of damage per second.

Here's my possible config for a couple of guns:

M50 Assault Rifle

Left Mouse Button - Fire
Right Mouse Button - Grenade
Q - Aim
E - Stock Swing
F - Single/Burst/Auto, not affecting the secondary attack
R - Reload

Fifty-9 SMG

Left Mouse Button - Fire/Activate Weapon Function
Right Mouse Button - Fire/Attach or Detach Barrel Extension/Unfold or Fold the Stock
Q - Aim
E - Blade Swing
F - Single/Burst/Auto
R - Reload

XRS-10 Machine Pistol

Left Mouse Button - Fire/Activate Weapon Function
Right Mouse Button - Fire/Attach or Detach Silencer/Turn On or Off Laser Sights
Q - Aim
E - None or an off hand punch in the future
F - Single/Burst/Auto
R - Reload

Flamethrower

Left Mouse Button - Spray Fuel
Right Mouse Button - Spill Fuel
Q - Aim (useless for this gun?)
E - None or a nozzle swing in the future
F - Napalm/Sludge/Liquid Nitrogen
R - Reload

Lightning Gun

Left Mouse Button - Tracking Arc
Right Mouse Button - Aimed Arc
Q - Aim (useless for this gun?)
E - None or a melee attack in the future
F - 6.000 Volt / 9.000 Volt / 12.000 Volt
R - Reload

Skrith Sidearm

Left Mouse Button - Regular Fire
Right Mouse Button - Accumulated Blast
Q - Aim
E - None or an off hand punch in the future
F - Single/Burst/Auto, not affecting the secondary fire
R - Nothing

So we have any number of firing modes, melee support for almost anything, primary and secondary fire, convenient aiming mode trigger, an easy way to activate laser sights and silencers, and all that stuff only uses some 4 keyboard keys and 2 mouse keys.

A good example is the amazing style and design of BW guns. Though BW has some very minor balance issues and probably lacks some logics, the whole bunch of weapons fits perfectly into UT's background, even though those are designed for another universe. That's why I'm so critical about the useless stock for Fifty-9: even though it looks cool, as long as it doesn't affect the gameplay strong enough that the player can feel it, that becomes a redundant feature that breaks the atmosphere.
[/quote]
BW already has speed penalties for wielding different types of guns, and it's not optional. Though even when you are running around the place with a minigun in your hands, the character speed is still high enough not to annoy the player. What I'm proposing isn't "realistic iron sights". Should they be realistic, you'd be limited only to slow walk while aiming. I propose a 40% speed penalty for aiming sniper rifles and machineguns, 20-30% for assault rifles (M50 is likely to have a 25% speed penalty for aiming), and 10-20% for pistols and SMG's. That won't annoy the player too much, but at least an aiming person will make an easier target for the enemies, so there will be some balance between aimed and unaimed fire, and both will be equally motivated.
[/quote]
BTW, it seems like I'm able to hit something a mile away while aiming an XRS-10, and when I fire it unaimed, it behaves just like a machine pistol should behave. I don't think that chaos and recoil should be completely done away with while aiming, what do you think?
[/quote]
I just think that when some guns have a melee capability while others do not, it adds to the guns' uniqueness and helps to keep the atmosphere - even if it's semi-realism, it should have at least 50% of realism by all means. If you were able to swing all the guns (even an XRS-10 with silencer attached), that probably would ruin some of the atmosphere because it doesn't make sense though it might be fun. I think it's ok to swing a flamethrower, but hitting people with the fragile lightning gun or a machinegun, which is too heavy to swing, is just nonsense. That's just my personal feeling.
[/quote]
You must be exaggerating about two hours, it took me only twenty minutes to write it and another twenty minutes to read it twice and edit.
[/quote]
7. Those guns which have collapsible stocks, barrel extensions, laser sights and silencers, and all sorts of attaches and complementary gadgets like detachable bayonettes and sniper scopes, use the Secondary Fire a.k.a. Right Mouse Button to scroll between Fire, Attach/Detach Silencer, Toggle Laser Sights On/Off and functions alike. The left mouse button just activates the selected function. If the Fire function is selected, then the gun fires. If Toggle Laser Sigts, then the laser sights are turned on and off when you click left mouse button. This should be the rule even for the guns that have only a silencer or only laser sights to prevent possible player claims like "Why the hell the pistol X toggles the laser sight on with the right mouse button while the pistol Y activates the silencer and the pistol Z uses the right mouse button to scroll between the two available options!!" I know it's illogical to toggle between Fire and Silencer first, then activate the silencer with the left mouse button and then toggle back to Fire instead of just pressing the right mouse button once, but anyway it won't be an undertaking and won't waste too much time... and we'll finally be able to put an end to the sore point about laser sights / silencer key desynchronization.
[/quote]Mouse button 1 - Fire[/b]
Performs the attack selected by Switch Firemodes.

Mouse button 2 - Switch Firemodes
Selects a firemode available by the currently wielded weapon. It can for example be Primary Attack of the Skrith rifle and then Stab Attack.

Mouse Button 3 - Switch Functions
Each firemode could have it's own set of functions. To show my point; if you select the Primary Attack of Skrith rifle, you'd have the choice of Semi-Auto, Burst and Full Auto. But if you select the Stab Attack, there are no options to choose from here except Stab.

F - Switch Attachables/Features
Lasersights, silencers, etc. are choosable here when appropriate.

2xF - Activate Attachable
Activates the selected attachable by double-pressing F.


My idea here uses quite a few keys (the bottom one could even use another key than double-F), but I personally would like it this way. Sure it would require getting used to, but I can do that.

You know, the silencers actually make bots unable to hear your bullets (or at least less likely to). I like my silencers! They help so much in trying to conceal my position at low health. I actually use stealth when I start to run out of health. And the XRS10 can just be easily turned off and not used at all you know. I prefer to not use it because of the inaccuracy. I try to aim it, but I can't with dual-wielding, where I can be good actually (and without aiming either, just spray-and-pray basically).